Brace Yourselves: Imbalance May Be Coming

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Rhys wrote:

Updated my previous post.

Spoiler

"But it was all just a misunderstanding...!"

The point i was making is like fightgar said. The crafting bench gets you within 5 life of the absolute best possible life value you can acquire. I'll take -5 life any day over eternal+exalting it. The benches are already powerful to new players by allowing them the mod in the first place so lowering the values by 1 bracket less is a good balance.

Keep in mind that life is a large number and yet only -5 life from top. Imagine rolls like attack speed or phys dmg who's max are 23% and 12 dmg respectively. The bench will probably be -2 or -1 from top roll. Getting the roll is already great and helps new players but making the crafting this easy with such high rolls is exaggerated.

I can probably grab a diamond ring and roll it with alts until I get top life bracket or high second bracket roll and augment it until i get high life + one resist. Then i yolo regal,i now have a random mod it can be another res, wep ele, ele roll or something less useful like life or mana regen or cast speed (still somewhat useful) then i go craft the phys dmg roll that is 1-2 off perfect and i now have a diamond ring 30% crit with top life, a good resist, one additional random and unknown regal mod and top phys. This random example cost me 100-200 alts and a couple regal and 3c at crafting bench. See how easy that was? Note that jewellery is also meant to be the hardest piece to craft because it has largest mod pool.

Anyway if im alone to be concerned about players reaching the LLD end game gear so fast and easily then by all means, ignore this feedback. Im just voicing a concern on the values the bench gives.and of course changing it after release will be too late.

I do not share this concern.^ Probably obvious by my previous post.

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GreenDude wrote:

Anyway if im alone to be concerned about players reaching the LLD end game gear so fast and easily then by all means, ignore this feedback. Im just voicing a concern on the values the bench gives.and of course changing it after release will be too late.

Why exactly would letting people play pvp be bad? Not having top tier gear means youre wasting your time trying to win against people who do. New people literally can't play against people who have that kind of gear because it's an auto-loss. What possible appeal is there in playing an unfair match where one person wins or is heavily advantaged due to gear? Mindlessly grinding single player doesn't mean you 'deserve' to win or have an advantage if we want this pvp to be competitive and not a joke.

Having gear be non-trivial to acquire accomplishes nothing. It either locks out new players entirely or makes them waste time on something that's not pvp before they even get to start playing.

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Why exactly would letting people play pvp be bad?

When i see a quote like that I think: I don't know if the person really read what I wrote because this is not at all what i am saying.

Anyway, if all of sudden starting tomorrow, 5k players joined LLD, they would be struggling to win a game. Your thinking about LLDers join the 20 or so of us in sc or the other 20 in hc. We have the best gear after years of working on it. If 5k ppl joined and we did a tourney, 99% of the players in the tourney would not face any of us (the 20 guys with top tier gear) but instead would face other ppl who have similar gear, most of which was made possible thru crafting benches so their gear has some high rolls and some third or 2nd bracket crafted mod. And those who like it and who are good, maybe now want to start reaching for top tier gear the same way we did.

The only problem this community has is that it is much too small so when 1 guy joins the 20 top guys, they get owned of course. Giving every1 top tier gear might work in this scenario, but if 5k ppl joined LLD, and all 5k could get top tier gear in a week or two, then ppl may be bored and never try to improve their build. Instead, they will look at the tourney, see who wins it and what their build is and then instantly acquire the same gear required to play the best build in a short amount of time and a small amount of currency. I am planning for the future when it will be too late to change things where as you guys are looking at our situation now with a handful of players and with 1 new llder every month.

Anyway like I said, if im the only one that shares this concern, then by all means; ignore me and this wall of text. But please if your going to respond to me, read what I have to say and understand it before you attempt to paraphrase me for something I never said.

EDIT: i feel i am not being clear. I do not want to remove benches or anything. ALL I WANT is to lower the values. Instead of getting up to 55 life (T1) make it a maximum of 40. Guaranteeing 40 life on a tri res helm you find is already HUGE. Im asking to balance the numbers not change ANYTHING else.

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GreenDude wrote:

things

You're saying it's fine for new people to literally not be able to play against us. That's an absurd, ridiculous statement to me. Playing with bad gear is ok because it's mostly against other people with bad gear? Do you really not see the problem there? Even if most of their matches are close, they are getting near-worthless experience because the game changes drastically with much better gear.

The other thing you mention is that "ppl may be bored and never try to improve their build". Improving your character happens on multiple axes: quality of gear, and customization in item/passive/skill choices. The 'quality of gear' axis is completely uninteresting and devoid of any decision making; you want the best quality gear you can get for any given character (60 life is better than 10 life on an item, no decision or thought involved).

The other axis, the 'customization' axis, is the one people are actually interested in because it is where the choices are. Making perfect gear easily available doesn't touch the customization part at all; it just lets people play the character they want to play and puts people on an even, fair playing field. If it isn't inherently obvious to you why those are necessary/good things for a game that we want to be competitive, then I really don't know what else to say.

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MrEnzyme wrote:

You're saying it's fine for new people to literally not be able to play against us. That's an absurd, ridiculous statement to me.

I did not say that. I can tell your not reading what I am writing. Therefore I will stop reading what you wrote there. I believe in debates with arguments. Its okay for our opinions to diverge. And I do not judge you as a person because of the opinion you are sharing here today. My opinion of you has no changed. So don't take it the wrong way when I say: I did not read your last post nor will I because you are not taking the time to read mine. In fact your putting words in my mouth and getting the wrong idea.

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GreenDude wrote:

I did not say that. I can tell your not reading what I am writing. Therefore I will stop reading what you wrote there. I believe in debates with arguments. Its okay for our opinions to diverge. And I do not judge you as a person because of the opinion you are sharing here today. My opinion of you has no changed. So don't take it the wrong way when I say: I did not read your last post nor will I because you are not taking the time to read mine. In fact your putting words in my mouth and getting the wrong idea.

Your exact words were: "If 5k ppl joined and we did a tourney, 99% of the players in the tourney would not face any of us (the 20 guys with top tier gear) but instead would face other ppl who have similar gear". You're rationalizing that it's fine for new people not to play against us because they can play against each other instead. They get locked out of competing for real because they haven't played as long, but that's supposed to be ok because they can play this other game of gimped gear vs gimped gear? How is that acceptable?

You started off by implying that making it easier to get gear would be bad for pvp, then failed to list a single reason why this would be the case. People reaching 'endgame LLD' earlier? Why would that be bad?

You seem convinced that I hate the idea of crafting benches.

I never said it shouldn't be easy to acquire great LLD gear. In fact, with benches it WILL be. I just think the values (brackets) are way too high.

Adding mods like cast speed on gloves, getting 40 life on boots with tri res and ms, all that stuff makes it easier and its great! Absolutely great. My only concern is the values are too high. period. That is my ONLY point.

When the values on an item are very high (tier 1) it kills the incentive to improve your charcter. Why would I exalt an item when I can just craft the top tier mod that I am aiming for. My character will not evolve, get better. By making it give Tier 3 or 2 mods instead, players still get insane gear by getting specific mods they need to compete. But they can always look forward to getting an item slightly better. That is all :)