Snapshotting

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elitedesolator wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Righteous Fire:

By design, Righteous Fire is meant to persist, whether or not you lose the skill. The theme of the skill is that you burn to death! As a result, if you unsocket the Righteous Fire gem, the effect will persist, but will no longer update with changes to support gems as there's no skill gem for them to support. However, if you then make changes to your gear or passives that would affect the skill, it will still detect this and change its effectiveness accordingly. If you resocket the Righteous Fire gem in the same slot, it will begin checking the support gems again, and change the effect to match.

So for Righteous Fire which part of it will be fixed? The post to me was quite unclear in that regard.

From my understanding of extreme RF snapshotting, it involves low life Pain Attunement 2 Redbeaks, plus the switching of gear such as a 6L Carcass to boost the damage and then switching back to your normal armour.

Which part or parts are going to be fixed?

EDIT: OK I read it again (reading comprehension pro here). So my conclusion is that none of it would work anymore for RF?

The only thing that sound like will work is if you put it in on a Searing Touch in the off weapon slot. I hope that still works.

I welcome the snapshot change, but I like many others will have to disagree with diversity being choices dependent.

That simply isn't true in the endgame.

The montreguls example shows the current lack of choice perfectly. However, I fail to see how homogenous spectre makeup make any kind of choice available.

Let's face it, PoE in its core is a min max game. Many builds are limited by amount of gems, and summoner is especially. No one in their right mind will run multiple copies of raise spectre gem for mere benefit of a different spectre type, unless the max spectre limit is raised with each copy of raise spectre gem.the benefit has to be great to outweigh things like cwdt,offerings, auras, AA, convocation, etc. But diversity has no real benefit, its more of a fun luxury.

There is no real choice here. There is homogenous minions and its by far the best possible choice by miles. The choice between offensive/defensive mechanisms by limiting gems is great; the choice between homogenous and nonhomogeneous minion setup is nonexistent- any trace of it is illusory

And I can understand if there were 10-15 types of spectres currently which would provide for some crazy synergies. But really, that's not the case. There's zero incentive to use 3 different types of spectres now, besides horsing around while leveling.

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robmafia wrote:

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Xasrai wrote:

When I use Double Strike, I benefit from one set of support gems. To benefit from another set, I must remove unneeded support gems and replace them with others, thus losing the benefit of the original gems. I don't get to have my "AOE double strike right-click" and my "Single-target double strike middle-click" using only a single 6L item. Your spectres don't lose those benefits, and thus have a 'net benefit' from changing and stacking support gems that I can't do. It's obviously not what GGG want, and they are taking steps to change it. Deal with it.

Edit: To reiterate, what you want isn't fair for the majority of players who don't get these same benefits. It may suck for minion 'diversity', but it was always an unintended consequence of the snapshotting mechanic that they have wanted to fix for months.

this literally makes no sense.

you act as if spectre a benefits from spectre b's gems that weren't used for spectre a.

it doesn't.

you keep saying there's a net gain. FACT: THERE ISN'T.

the spectres should get the benefits of their own support gems - SAME AS YOUR DOUBLE STRIKE.


if you double strike with multistrike, it gets the bonus. if you change it to melee splash, it... get this, gets the melee splash bonus.

it's the SAME for the spectres. they're not getting anything additional. jesus.

Point is: You are using a Spectre without having the necassary gems equiped.

You have spectre 1 with Supports B C D E F
and then you change the settup
now you have spectre 2 with Supports B C D E G

So how is it fair that you have spectre 1 without having Support F equiped?

The whole point of fixing snapshotting is that you don't gain something from items/ gems that are not equiped. In this case, spectre 1 still gains benefits from Support F without you having Support F equiped.

And the point some people here tried to make is that your spectres (counted together) gain the benefits from Supports B C D E F G (6 supports) while only occupying 1 Item. AKA a gem net bonus of 1.

If you want different spectres just use one Spectre gem + 5 supports in a 6 link and another SPectre gem + 3 supports (in 4link) or 5 supports (in another 6 link (2handed weapon/bow))

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robmafia wrote:

the spectres should get the benefits of their own support gems - SAME AS YOUR DOUBLE STRIKE.


if you double strike with multistrike, it gets the bonus. if you change it to melee splash, it... get this, gets the melee splash bonus.

it's the SAME for the spectres. they're not getting anything additional. jesus.

This would be a comparable case if our first double strike with multistrike would stay on the field and keep fighting while we also get a double strike with melee splash. But we only get one OR the other not both at the same time like casting a spectre with setting 1 and then additionally getting a spectre with setting 2 just by switching a support gem.

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Sneakypaw wrote:

Point is: You are using a Spectre without having the necassary gems equiped.

You have spectre 1 with Supports B C D E F
and then you change the settup
now you have spectre 2 with Supports B C D E G

So how is it fair that you have spectre 1 without having Support F equiped?

The whole point of fixing snapshotting is that you don't gain something from items/ gems that are not equiped. In this case, spectre 1 still gains benefits from Support F without you having Support F equiped.

And the point some people here tried to make is that your spectres (counted together) gain the benefits from Supports B C D E F G (6 supports) while only occupying 1 Item. AKA a gem net bonus of 1.

If you want different spectres just use one Spectre gem + 5 supports in a 6 link and another SPectre gem + 3 supports (in 4link) or 5 supports (in another 6 link (2handed weapon/bow))

...this retorts literally nothing i previously said.

HOW IS THIS A NET GAIN? HOW IS IT AN ADVANTAGE? hint: it's neither.

literally NO ONE has been able to explain either. whether i have 4 spectres running the same 5 supports or 4 spectres running 5 different supports each - IT'S 4 SPECTRES WITH A COMBINED 20 SUPPORTS/5 SUPPORTS EACH. they're all powered THE SAME.

they don't magically gain supports from the OTHER spectres. only their own.

4 spectres with the same 5 supports is JUST AS powerful/supported as 4 spectres with 5 different supports - not more powerful. not less powerful. 5 supports is 5 supports. period.

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This would be a comparable case if our first double strike with multistrike would stay on the field and keep fighting while we also get a double strike with melee splash. But we only get one OR the other not both at the same time like casting a spectre with setting 1 and then additionally getting a spectre with setting 2 just by switching a support gem.

1 spectre = only 25% of the skill if there are 4 spectres. jesus.

no one's GAINING anything.

4 gmp tentacles = 4 aoe evalgelists = 2 gmp tentacles and 2 aoe evangelists, and etc. 2 fully supported tentacles and 2 supported evangelists isn't magically MORE than 4 supported tentacles. this is so retardedly simple that i literally don't know how to possibly simplify it further.

it's simply diversifying instead of concentrating. that's it.

it's an issue because GGG is claiming to bring diversity with this change, but it seems to only heavily incentivize the opposite of diversity - uniformity.

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robmafia wrote:

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Sneakypaw wrote:

Point is: You are using a Spectre without having the necassary gems equiped.

You have spectre 1 with Supports B C D E F
and then you change the settup
now you have spectre 2 with Supports B C D E G

So how is it fair that you have spectre 1 without having Support F equiped?

The whole point of fixing snapshotting is that you don't gain something from items/ gems that are not equiped. In this case, spectre 1 still gains benefits from Support F without you having Support F equiped.

And the point some people here tried to make is that your spectres (counted together) gain the benefits from Supports B C D E F G (6 supports) while only occupying 1 Item. AKA a gem net bonus of 1.

If you want different spectres just use one Spectre gem + 5 supports in a 6 link and another SPectre gem + 3 supports (in 4link) or 5 supports (in another 6 link (2handed weapon/bow))

HOW IS THIS A NET GAIN? HOW IS IT AN ADVANTAGE? hint: it's neither.

It is a gain in that: Under normal circumstances you need two 6 link items full with 2 Spectre Gems and 10 support gems to have two different Spectres (supported by 5 supports each)

What you have now is: You only need one 6link item with 1 Spectre gem and 5 supports that you switch to your liking.

The later lets you 1) have the same build while needing only one 6link and 2) (If you have a second 6link) lets you use one 6link for an entirely different skill to be supported by 5 supports.


Now tell me that is not an advantage.

Thats the best news i saw for a long time.

The snapshotting exploit using is for me a game killer.

Now hopefully it will be a improved experience for all NOT snapshotting people
and a bad situation for all expoiting (snapshotting) people.

so its o.k. if they dont kike it.

If i use rmt i will cry if ggg close my account. But thats the rule.

If i use snapshotting knowing the game isnt create to use it, then i have a
problem if they fix it.
In my opinion noone really can think that putting out gems without loosing the
gems effect can be a game rule.

so all people using this effect must be aware that it will be fixed.

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robmafia wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

You want a diversity of spectres? How bout some REAL diversity by, you know, summoning several different spectres

*facepalm*

THAT'S PRECISELY MY POINT. if they're all going to use the SAME support gems, it makes no sense to vary them. one would be better off using ONE type of spectre that benefits from all support slots.

wow. i'm amazed at how simple concepts appear to be so difficult to understand.

Think dec said that what they want. Master of one type of spectres with some jack of all trades. Right now you are JACK OF ALL TRADES MASTER OF ALL. You gotta think what spetres you want to be fully optimised(4 of them ) or have one or two of that fully optimised spectres with the other two less optimised for supports.

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Sneakypaw wrote:

It is a gain in that: Under normal circumstances you need two 6 link items full with 2 Spectre Gems and 10 support gems to have two different Spectres (supported by 5 supports each)

What you now is: You only need one 6link item with 1 Spectre gem and 5 supports that you twitch to your liking.

The later lets you 1) have the same build while needing only one 6link and 2) (If you have a second 6link) lets you use one 6link for an entirely different skill to be supported by 5 supports.


Now tell me that is not an advantage.

how is having 4 5-gem supported an advantage over... get this, having 4 5-gem supported spectres? THEY HAVE THE SAME POWER. you're trying to tell me that a 6L spectre is better than a 6L spectre. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

yes, it's NOT an advantage. the same is the same. not more. not greater. the same.

you act as if spectre diversity = advantage. the only advantage it brings is mitigating boredom, monotony, and uniformity.

You just killed end-game summoners (trying to kill uber). Well done.

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robmafia wrote:

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Sneakypaw wrote:

It is a gain in that: Under normal circumstances you need two 6 link items full with 2 Spectre Gems and 10 support gems to have two different Spectres (supported by 5 supports each)

What you now is: You only need one 6link item with 1 Spectre gem and 5 supports that you twitch to your liking.

The later lets you 1) have the same build while needing only one 6link and 2) (If you have a second 6link) lets you use one 6link for an entirely different skill to be supported by 5 supports.


Now tell me that is not an advantage.

how is having 4 5-gem supported an advantage over... get this, having 4 5-gem supported spectres? THEY HAVE THE SAME POWER. you're trying to tell me that a 6L spectre is better than a 6L spectre. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

yes, it's NOT an advantage. the same is the same. not more. not greater. the same.

you act as if spectre diversity = advantage. the only advantage it brings is mitigating boredom, monotony, and uniformity.

You are a funny dude.

It's not about levels of power. I already told you what the advantage is of this 'snapshotting' with spectres over how it is supposed to be.

Read again. If you still don't agree, read again until you can comprehend it.