absolute cope 3.28 bingo for Mark

"

sidtherat#1310 wrote:

Why would you use Sweep for bleed? Esp crit bleed? You know that the best best bleed supports are: Fist of War and Ruthless and you cannot use neither with Sweep?

Why would you not be able to use ruthless with sweep?

but your gnarly bleeds are Crimson Dance bleeds so that means you cannot benefit from main advantage of bleed build: running in circles for safety while that one big bleed does its job.

Sweep.. kinda doesnt have AOE. not with your levels of investment (3% per endu charge seems to be the only scaling you have)

i hope youll find the build satisfactory but - you are not discovering something new here (and in fact you are missing the Rupture mechanic completely) you are just forcing a square peg trough a round hole. i do not see this build completing Simus reliably, Ultimatum is out of the question (too many build disabling mods, ruin mods are no go due to no avoidance and stationary gameplay), ubers.. some, maybe, unlikely

and finally - how reliable are POB's numbers for CD bleeds nowadays? because these were VERY misleading in the past. has that been fixed?

Ruthless affects only strike and slam skills. it is a ~3.25 change afaik

"

sidtherat#1310 wrote:

Ruthless affects only strike and slam skills. it is a ~3.25 change afaik

Yep, found it in the 3.15 patch notes when I knew what to look for (the same patch that also gutted its damage). That's bizarre, I never knew they changed it from non-channeling skills.

"

The reason I said Spark and Frostbolt are poor comparisons are because not every spell's purpose is to be the main act in a build. By that logic you should buff Contagion by 5000% to be on par with Essence Drain. Skills don't exist in a vaccuum and your examples only work in a vaccuum.

So frostbolt should be forever suck now cause ice nova of frostbolts exists and contagion also has to be forever suck cause essende drain exists? This is exactly what I have a problem with and you just proved my point. Some potent interactions exists so the individual parts are useless outside it. Cool design, we must protect it at any cost, lol.

Whats the point of buffing contagions and frostbolts by 25 percent if they arent in the game to do damage?

Your logic doesnt make sense. Well maybe it does to yourself, but thats it. All you do is defend the broken status quo religiously.

Wanna try explaining why freezing pulse has to suck next?

"

Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

"

The reason I said Spark and Frostbolt are poor comparisons are because not every spell's purpose is to be the main act in a build. By that logic you should buff Contagion by 5000% to be on par with Essence Drain. Skills don't exist in a vaccuum and your examples only work in a vaccuum.

So frostbolt should be forever suck now cause ice nova of frostbolts exists and contagion also has to be forever suck cause essende drain exists? This is exactly what I have a problem with and you just proved my point. Some potent interactions exists so the individual parts are useless outside it. Cool design, we must protect it at any cost, lol.

Whats the point of buffing contagions and frostbolts by 25 percent if they arent in the game to do damage?

Your logic doesnt make sense. Well maybe it does to yourself, but thats it. All you do is defend the broken status quo religiously.

Wanna try explaining why freezing pulse has to suck next?

I was asking for a direct comparison, but you just had to bring up Frostbolt. If you didn't get it from the Contagion argument I don't know what to tell you. Why do people still use Contagion if it deals such mediocre damage?

Because it's a setup spell. It has a damaging compartment, but people use it in a combo with another spell such as Ice Nova of Frostbolts, or in case of Contagion, Essence Drain where Contagion acts as a transmitter.

That's why I was asking for a specific buff that missed the mark as you put it for not having high enough numbers to see what kind of response I'd get from you. Thank you for confirming what I feared. :-)

You disagree with the design choice, but are willing to ignore that's what it is.

Base damage on frostbolt suggests its a direct damage spell, but its mechanics leave it at 1/5th or some other fraction of actual dps effectiveness of a real dps spell. It also gets balance passes as if its a real dps spell yet its entirely meaningless.

Then you come in and say "nah is just whats contagion is to essence drain but for frost nova of frostbolts".

I tell you its stupid and leaving it in this state is having less of a game with apparent noob traps.

Your reply is "its a right thing that it is so" and that you have confirmed something irrelevant to yourself.

Its meaningless to reason with you. All your replies are deflections, dancing around the issue, constant avoiding the actual point.

You will waste my time no longer. Type into the void.

Frostbolt was released along its threshold jewel:



GGG knew that it is a bad spell (Freezing Pulse had something similar) and compensated for it with TJewel. it still wasnt great (2 jewel sockets is not a small price) but at least it was something. I made back then a quite good selfcast, direct damage Frostbolter that was 'ok'

as for the other skills my pet peewee is a situation like Viper Strike/VSotMamba or Volcanic Fissure/VSoSnaking. where regular gem is objectively worse and by a significant margin. if everyone plays the version X, the base version should simply be deleted. Holy Relic, Penance Brand, Volcanic Fissure - have you ever seen anyone play these (base versions) instead of Conviction/Dissipation/Snaking? why the base versions even exist?


with Sweep - it is the same story, what is its purpose? the knockback? it has nothing going for it and if someone makes a build around it, most probably Cyclone, Lacerate of Butchering, Ground Slam (transfigured), BladeStorm or Rage Vortex can replace it and perform much better

Asking the real question, how did this thread of a silly whimsical chart meme of what are some uncontroversial hopes for the next league end up becoming a standard issue fighting thread?

Enough internet for now I guess.

"

sidtherat#1310 wrote:

GGG knew that it is a bad spell (Freezing Pulse had something similar) and compensated for it with TJewel. it still wasnt great (2 jewel sockets is not a small price) but at least it was something. I made back then a quite good selfcast, direct damage Frostbolter that was 'ok'

If you just change the wording to "they intended for the spell to not be a direct damaging spell" you'd be spot on, much like other "damaging" spells that aren't meant to be used as a main damaging skill. Other examples are Voidsphere, Contagion, Bear Trap, Frost Bomb, Frost Wall and Hydrosphere.

but GGG kinda said exactly that when they introduced threshold jewels - they gave them to bad skills to make them at least relevant

Cleave had one, Sweep, Heavy Strike, Ground Slam, Frostbolt, Freezing Pulse (that had pretty much the same numbers btw. Frostbolt WAS NOT a setup skill initially, it was a direct damaging spell, it simply lost too much damage because of GMP penalty at that time and returning projectiles were not that popular) Fireball - all these were considered garbage (rightfully) back then and pretty much the list of 'loosers' remains the same 6 years later


Most of skills that once had threshold jewels SUCK since GGG removed these jewels..