-20% exp on death needed

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

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Wladicorist1#5599 wrote:

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

PoE barely rewarding risky gameplay? Are you kidding me? 😂

tell what content is risky but rewarding...
if you run uber pinnacles you barely get back what you spend on it (if you spend something on the invitation)

The entire mapping system is built around risk versus reward. It's crazy to me to see people who have been playing the game for this long not understand these basic principles, but here we are. At least you are of entertainment value

you never played a single risky and rewarding game dude
poe is just not rewarding when it comes to risky content. if i do uber pinnacles they barely drop stuff. i have to run like 50 of them to get back with +

mapping is risky? lol of course. tell me how much value you get out of a fully juiced map while some other clown is sitting there in his hideout controlling the tradesystem and makes more in 1 trade than you do in an entire league.

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Wladicorist1#5599 wrote:

you never played a single risky and rewarding game dude
poe is just not rewarding when it comes to risky content. if i do uber pinnacles they barely drop stuff. i have to run like 50 of them to get back with +

mapping is risky? lol of course. tell me how much value you get out of a fully juiced map while some other clown is sitting there in his hideout controlling the tradesystem and makes more in 1 trade than you do in an entire league.

Don't assume things about people you don't know, it makes you look foolish even to people who only read and choose not to engage in this conversation.

Before you try and distract further from my legitimate argument about the mapping system, lets break it down for the kids in the back:

1) Maps can be rolled with extra modifiers. Each modifier adds an appropriate amount of extra quantity, item rarity and pack size to the map.

2) More difficult modifiers add more reward to maps.

3) Modifiers can be stacked on top of one another, only further adding risk but also reward to the map instance. Naturally, only 6 can be rolled on a map.

4) Vaal Orbs modify the map in unpredictable ways, sometimes even rolling them with 8 random modifiers.

5) Maps can be further modified via the Scarab system which in some cases even add more difficult monster packs to the map. Risk Scarabs add even more modifiers to a map, which raises the maximum to 10. We do not know which 2 modifiers are added before entering. Talk about risk!

6) Maps can be made more difficult via Delirium Orbs, adding difficulty by adding extra monsters, making monsters tankier and increasing their damage

7) Maps can be made more difficult by adding map mod effect via the Atlas tree

8) Maps can be made more difficult by adding influence types like Maven (Destructive Play), Eater or Exarch

There's plenty more to be said but that's the most important stuff right out the gate. Every thing I mention adds risk to a map, because risk isn't just defined as how much return on investment you make but also whether or not you die.

You have never played hardcore so I understand you don't have a good understanding of this. Maybe softcore indeed needs harsher penalties for dying to add more risk to your reward system. Oh look, we're in a thread about raising the death penalty, how convenient.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I mean, all I'm saying is exp loss should be an optional toggle. This doesn't negatively impact any players, and would just allow people who don't like the mechanic to click a button to turn it off.

Come on man, think more deeply. Refusal to understand why the exp penalty exists in the first place doesn't change the fact that....there IS a reason it exists.

A toggle invalidates that reason. It has NOTHING to do with player agency or negative impact or anything of the sort. It serves a purpose that is non-optional for everyone opting into playing PoE. You are trying to equate things with the exp penalty that have absolutely nothing to do with it.

That is equivalent to saying in a thread about playing Hardcore mode that "Permanent Death" should be a toggle......while still playing HC.

Really need to learn how to think how ideas REALLY effect those outside of a single person's bubble of limited experience.



Player agency and customization, as you describe, is within the character building and the endgame customization. It is MASSIVE. Player agency does NOT extend to fundamental systems that make the game run. It's why we can't "hack" the game, or use 3rd party software to cheat. The tradeoff of you constantly making characters with zero defenses is that you die....a lot. Enough to complain and really feel the death penalty. It is actually SERVING ITS PURPOSE by sending you a signal that there is something off with your builds. You just adamantly refuse to recognize it.

It's as if there's a police car trailing behind you and you just ignore it and keep driving. And then when he finally succeeds in pulling you over, you launch into a tirade that he shouldn't be following you and his lights are bothering you. And then you drive away seconds later, doing exactly the same thing that got you pulled over in the first place.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Player agency does NOT extend to fundamental systems that make the game run.

Exp loss isn't important for the game at all though, and it functions just fine without it in the campaign. I've also just played other ARPGs without exp loss and had lot of fun, so clearly its not required to have a good game. Its not as core of a mechanic as people make it out to be lol, all it is is a leftover from when the game had Cruel and Merciless difficulties instead of 10 acts. Its in no way a fundamental system and doesn't make the game run. The game would be perfectly fine without exp loss, in fact it would be 100x more fun.

All I wanna do is have fun in this game, and exp loss greatly reduces my fun.

It needs to go, its an outdated mechanic that just wastes time. Dying already feels bad in a game, extra punishing mechanics on top are not necessary at all.

As for the whole "game is telling you that your build is bad/not ready for content" thing? I don't think a game has any right to do that to a player. Its up to me to decide those things. I think its bad to force these kinds of things onto a player through overly punishing mechanics like exp loss. It will never teach me anything, only make me wanna stop playing. It is what it is.

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

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Wladicorist1#5599 wrote:

you never played a single risky and rewarding game dude
poe is just not rewarding when it comes to risky content. if i do uber pinnacles they barely drop stuff. i have to run like 50 of them to get back with +

mapping is risky? lol of course. tell me how much value you get out of a fully juiced map while some other clown is sitting there in his hideout controlling the tradesystem and makes more in 1 trade than you do in an entire league.

Don't assume things about people you don't know, it makes you look foolish even to people who only read and choose not to engage in this conversation.

Before you try and distract further from my legitimate argument about the mapping system, lets break it down for the kids in the back:

1) Maps can be rolled with extra modifiers. Each modifier adds an appropriate amount of extra quantity, item rarity and pack size to the map.

2) More difficult modifiers add more reward to maps.

3) Modifiers can be stacked on top of one another, only further adding risk but also reward to the map instance. Naturally, only 6 can be rolled on a map.

4) Vaal Orbs modify the map in unpredictable ways, sometimes even rolling them with 8 random modifiers.

5) Maps can be further modified via the Scarab system which in some cases even add more difficult monster packs to the map. Risk Scarabs add even more modifiers to a map, which raises the maximum to 10. We do not know which 2 modifiers are added before entering. Talk about risk!

6) Maps can be made more difficult via Delirium Orbs, adding difficulty by adding extra monsters, making monsters tankier and increasing their damage

7) Maps can be made more difficult by adding map mod effect via the Atlas tree

8) Maps can be made more difficult by adding influence types like Maven (Destructive Play), Eater or Exarch

There's plenty more to be said but that's the most important stuff right out the gate. Every thing I mention adds risk to a map, because risk isn't just defined as how much return on investment you make but also whether or not you die.

You have never played hardcore so I understand you don't have a good understanding of this. Maybe softcore indeed needs harsher penalties for dying to add more risk to your reward system. Oh look, we're in a thread about raising the death penalty, how convenient.

literally ragebait at this point
im out :D
you should reconsider gaming ^^

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Exp loss isn't important for the game at all though and it functions just fine without it in the campaign

You mean Act 1-5? Because there's XP penalty from Act 6 onwards, so you're wrong.

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I've also just played other ARPGs without exp loss and had lot of fun

Then play those games instead.

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Its not as core of a mechanic as people make it out to be

If it isn't important, why are you so obsessed with it?

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All I wanna do is have fun in this game, and exp loss greatly reduces my fun.

Build a better character then.

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I don't think a game has any right to do that to a player.

What are you gonna do, sue them?

In that whole post there's not a single argument except for a non-sequitur about fun. See this @Exsea? He made this exact post with different wording like 20 times already

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Wladicorist1#5599 wrote:

literally ragebait at this point
im out :D
you should reconsider gaming ^^

If factual arguments are rage-inducing to you, maybe it is for the better that "you're out". I don't see a reason why I should reconsider gaming. Too bad "you're out" or you could explain why that is

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

If it isn't important, why are you so obsessed with it?

I'm not? I just don't like hours of my time being deleted for no reason every time I die. It feels bad. A game should never steal someone's time investment away like that.

They already removed exp loss from pinnacle bosses, and the game is just fine. Now I can finally corpse-rush into any boss I want, without caring about dying. It feels so good to just die to a boss and see that exp bar not moving, this is how the whole game should be. Softcore is supposed to be the easy-mode. Exp loss is a hardcore mechanic.

And I don't wanna play a different build. I don't wanna change my build. And meta builds are too expensive and hard to copy, would take me weeks of farming to even copy one and what if I get baited into a bad one? I've wasted a lot of time. So my only option is for the game to change to be more fun.


Like if they don't remove exp loss I can just keep walking right around it and ignoring it by buying legion 5-way rota carries or living in Sanctum till lvl100. Its boring to do Sanctum so much, doesn't feel great but whatever. And if the best way to level to 100 in SC Trade is set your game to windowed 800x600 and join a legion 5-way rota, then you know there's a problem with leveling lol

The last good exp strat was the OP 10% exp per shrine buff scarab, and it lasted for 1 league until they deleted it lol, that was the one time a casual like me was able to hit 100 from normal mapping in a few hours and it was fun and rewarding. But apparently that scarab was just far too powerful. I was getting a whole 3% exp per map at 99 with that strat, it was craaaazy. It only took me like 40 Dunes to get from 99-100 cus I died like twice. And that was the most fun I've ever had leveling in this game in my 6000 hours.


All that exp loss does is gatekeep the game for a large majority of players, it would be so much more accessible and approachable if it wasn't so harshly punishing.


Like if I could safely reach 100 with 0 risk of losing exp, I would play and map every single league in t16 alch&go maps with 30 packsize until I hit max level. I would play the game so much more, exp loss is just reducing player retention by a LOT. All I want is to passively level up and chill without any risk of the game punishing me for no reason, is that really so much to ask for?

The game wouldn't break in half if a casual like me was allowed to reach lvl100 easily over a long period of time. It really wouldn't.

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Wladicorist1#5599 wrote:

literally ragebait at this point
im out :D
you should reconsider gaming ^^

No, you're just wrong.
He explained in detail how you make the content more rewarding AND more risky but you choose to argue anyway.
Of course uber bosses aren't always profitable dropwise (if that's your argument), although you can sell the kills for challenges as well. The uber drops and their chances are in the wiki so it's up to you if you want to risk it or not.

No exp penalty until game starts very good telegraphing everything and let player know what was a reason of character death. Because now is just mud on screen from effects. Now HC is gambling for whom have a lot of free time for making new char every time because of dying from unknown invisible ondead effect that actually happened in different part of screen but because of net lag server made a decision to kill character ^^