-20% exp on death needed
" Oh but there is a death penalty in bosses. Losing all your portals and thus losing the whole invitation, and having to farm it again. And I agree, there should be tutorial versions of bosses that are easy to encounter/have infinite portals so people can actually learn and practice these fights instead of just randomly running in circles until the boss dies. Because that is PoE 1's gameplay in every pinnacle boss: run around in a circle and hope boss dies before you. It makes no sense that the first 2 voidstones are tutorial fights, and if you lose the invite all you have to do is 1 map to get it back, yet the other 2 voidstones are a long grind and losing the invitation means you have to spend all that time grinding it again, or buy the expensive fragments. So ofc people will just buy a carry instead, because the game is designed in such a way to encourage you to do that as to not waste your own time. Why risk losing your invitation,time and currency when you can just go to a carry group and get your boss kill guaranteed? Exp loss is the same story. People buy legion 5-way exp rotas, or join exp leech groups in global 820/trade 820 because they don't like losing their hours of exp that they have already earned, so they buy their way to their desired level with some divines. That's a sign that leveling sucks because of the death penalty. I'm not the one deciding to go to an exp leech group, the game is forcing me to do that because I am given no other options. I also had no other choice than to spam 50x Sanctums to reach lvl100 because of the exp loss on death. Because leveling normally sucks, since at any time you can go -10% exp even from lag. If I had the option to disable exp loss, I wouldn't even be here complaining about it. I'd be chilling and leveling at my own pace. SC Trade is supposed to be the easy mode. Dying and losing 10% exp feels bad. That's why so many people want exp loss gone, it would just make the game better for everyone and make it more approachable by new/old players who might have quit because of it. If exp loss was just a toggle, the people that still want it could leave it on, and the people that dislike it could turn it off. Its such a simple fix. This game is all about player agency, well let us customize our gameplay to our liking. I don't want to lose exp on death, I want a fun game where I can just do maps and level up at whatever slow pace I can. And it would affect literally nobody if that option was in the game. It would only improve it for a group of people who don't enjoy losing hours of their time for no reason. And guess what, I'd play every league for considerably longer if exp loss was gone/a toggle. It would be a net positive for the game's player retention. Right now if I don't reach a high level I get seriously demotivated and I'm like "welp its pointless to play this league imma just quit". All they need to do is make exp loss some toggle in the settings, or a checkmark on character creation. Then people can opt-in or out depending on their preference. |
|
" Well your normal pinnacle content already feels like the practice mode for the ultra deluxe future versions. So six portals is honestly pretty generous for letting people practice fights that are already outdated and completely bullied by power creep. The newer fights even come with a tutorial version of the tutorial, and if that’s still not enough I genuinely don’t know what to say. At that point, if you’re still struggling while playing a boss focused build, it might be time to consider trying different content or at least a different build. " More like it’s just dealing damage while avoiding clearly indicated attacks. There’s nothing about hoping involved since you’re pretty much always in control of not getting hit, or you can build a character that allows for lazier gameplay where getting hit doesn’t immediately result with death. " You’d be surprised, but that’s not how most people approach it. A lot just jump straight into the fight as soon as they’re ready and crush it, because those fights are pretty damn easy these days and heavily overpowered by power creep even on day one. The best example are SSF players, who don’t even have access to trade or carries, while the slower crowd is still 20 or 30 hours deep in the campaign. " No, most players use 5-ways to speed level their alts because it’s simply the fastest way to push a character to the desired level, throw on prepared gear, and go. Not many people use them to carry a struggling main, and I know this from experience since I hosted 5-way runs a couple of leagues ago and asked clients out of curiosity. The people joining because they can’t level on their own are the minority. Most do it purely for the convenience of alt leveling. " Leech parties are a different story. They’re basically the last resort for people who struggle and can’t afford 5-way runs because they aren’t making any currency and are just hoping someone carries them. Not that a few extra levels would suddenly fix things anyway. The game gives you plenty of ways to level easily, quickly, and safely. One of the simplest options is just running basic content, and if even that is too hard and you’re getting farmed by pixels, that’s a pretty clear sign it’s time to revamp your character. The game doesn’t force you to play something totally suboptimal, that choice is entirely on you and well within your control. The death penalty stops being a problem the moment you stop dying all the time. " It’s already the easiest mode imaginable. You basically get a built in item editor through trade, and you can blast any content with zero consequences. Since it’s the main mode with tons of players, trade is permanently flooded with mountains of items, which automatically makes it the easiest option by default. It really can’t get any easier than this, and if it’s still too hard after all that, I honestly don’t know what to tell you. " Well, do something about not dying all the time. No deaths means no experience penalty. Only people with poorly optimized builds seem to struggle with it, while everyone else breezes through. At the end of the day, it’s completely on you, your obsession with death is the only thing standing in your way. " This was already covered in another topic, but an XP toggle isn’t happening. It would basically create a whole new game mode, splitting the player base even further, and it would probably end up nearly as dead as Standard and Ruthless. GGG isn’t going to make the game any easier than it already is. " The game actually gives you a lot of player agency. You can customize your experience, run the content you want, and build your character however you like without being forced into a default setup or a rigid content loop. You are not required to tackle harder content if your character is not ready for it. That choice is entirely in your hands. If deaths in tougher fights feel frustrating, that is just a sign it is time to step up, learn the basics, optimize your build, and suddenly those struggles disappear like they do for everyone else. True player agency does not mean the game has to bend over backward to accommodate every weakness. Making the game artificially easy would actually be worse because most players would burn out since nothing would feel rewarding and the game would quickly lose its appeal. " That is statistically not true. One person quitting a little earlier or later does not meaningfully change player retention. Once again, you are in control of fixing that. Nobody is forcing you to play the same suboptimal build over and over each league just to get frustrated by deaths. Even with your current build, adding some defensive layers and optimizing your setup would make a huge difference. Instead, too often we blame the game rather than taking action ourselves. " That is still never going to happen. Hobby Gamer and Professional Software Engineer & Systems Architect from Tennessee
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe“ - Albert Einstein |
|
" i do think having the option available would be good, but i agree likely wont happen. just crossing my fingers with unhealthy doses of hopium and copium that it does. i believe people will keep asking for it and have asked for it for years. and if i m being honest, it takes away nothing from players who choose to have harsher penalties. in fact, on the flipside, i would also advocate for in game toggles to enable harsher penalties. be it 20% 50% 100% xp penalty, gear loss, character voided etc. this should make all player groups happy. casuals can play casually with no fear of xp loss current enjoyers can enjoy the current 10% loss better players can enjoy harsher punishments win-win-win all around [Removed by Support]
|
|
" Well, a full casual does not care about reaching max level or engaging with endgame. Everything beyond that is for players who are more invested and want to tackle endgame content or reach max level. Those players are not casuals. The term casual is really being misused a lot. Players who strive for something, for example reaching level 100, simply have to overcome the wall, which in this case is the death penalty. That is not a problem if you are willing to learn and improve. If you are not able to do so, that is basically not the game’s problem. Being realistic, not every game needs to feed into instant gratification because that is what ruins most games. Introducing an easier mode would only serve to split the community even further, as a simple XP toggle or easy mode within the same league is not feasible for obvious competitive reasons. GGG is already incredibly generous by allowing power creep to make the game far more forgiving than ever. In the current state, it is virtually impossible not to have a solid character unless a player outright refuses to optimize or improve their build despite the game being at its easiest state in history. Refusing to learn the basics or stubbornly sticking to suboptimal choices is something the game cannot address. That falls entirely on the player, not the design. I also think GGG has learned from Ruthless by not creating additional modes, which would only increase the amount of balance work across multiple modes. If anything, now that Ruthless has its own balance, it might be the turn of SSF players to ask for SSF-specific balancing since Trade League is already the easiest mode by default. Hobby Gamer and Professional Software Engineer & Systems Architect from Tennessee
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe“ - Albert Einstein |
|
" for the first, if you believe this is true, then why ask for harsher exp on death penalties? isnt that going to split up the community as well? we will have softcore, softcore hard mode, hardcore. 3 modes for the second, if anything ggg learned that making the game harder is not what most players want. most if not all my friends have zero interest playing poe ruthless. only one of my friends play poe hardcore. in anycase, i really would want ggg to open a poll for its active playerbase to just directly ask what do the players want, so we dont need to bicker needlessly. lol. pretty sure the forum mods are tired of reading this over and over again. [Removed by Support]
|
|
" Introducing a higher penalty would not create a new game mode, whereas implementing a 'toggle for death penalty' would. I do not think it is that complicated, these are simply two distinct concepts " I think you’ve been around long enough to know that. GGG has always built their game around a certain level of harder content as their endgame. Creating a harsher environment to encourage players to improve and get better has always been part of their plan, just like throwing unprepared players into cold water when the game is ready to skill check them. They make a challenge for players who enjoy harder content instead of wrapping everything in bubble wrap to keep players cozy. The instant gratification crowd has never been the focus when designing content. History shows that this is what made the game successful and what their main audience wants. Looking back, they have never built the game around the smaller audience that complains about trivial things, often because they refuse to learn the basics. Even less have they ever balanced or changed the game for people who announce they are leaving for the 24th time only to return and find new reasons to complain because the game does not exist to keep them comfortable. So yes, a harder game is exactly what most players want. Hobby Gamer and Professional Software Engineer & Systems Architect from Tennessee
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe“ - Albert Einstein |
|
" No it wouldn't. Anyone would be able to click this toggle on or off in any already existing mode, there would be no need to create a whole new seperate one. Meanwhile making the game more punishing would split the community,alienate a large group of players and make so many more quit. If they want more players to play this game, exp loss will have to be deleted or made optional at some point. That's just a fact. It would literally not affect anyone who enjoys exp loss, because they can still play with it while other people who don't like it can disable it. Its a win-win for everyone. Its the most simple and easiest solution. |
|
|
I highly doubt anywhere CLOSE to the "majority" or even a remotely large portion of the playerbase is buying carries or doing 5-way rotas to get to 100.
People THINK this is the norm because they don't even consider that the vast vast VAST majority of players actually LIKE playing the game and do so. Not once, in the past 13 years and 18000 hours I have in this game, have I bought into a rota. I have come up with so many different solo leveling strategies that work and are fun for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Leveling to me is FUN. Running around with a fully decked out level 100 toon is not. Additionally, I remember the only boss that I have ever bought a carry for. Once. And that was King of the Mists in 3.23. I don't see any point in being carried through a boss that would ultimately take me probably less than 30 minutes to do myself. Especially after learning the mechanics. There are so many assumptions in this thread that the LEAST engaged of the playerbase is the norm......when it really really isn't Starting anew....with PoE 2
|
|
" It's the same fallacy as the dot cap, as if everyone that runs a DoT build reaches cap, add to this the fact that maps have all sorts of mobs with all sorts of modifiers (which penalizes DoT), but nope, import PoB, tick boxes, ignore those variants, and "omg I reach dot cap!" Also, players will be players, and we'll find ways to make it easier to level up. 5way is now boss area? Aight, gonna find a simu service. Simu now grants no xp? Aight, gonna find a delve farmer. Delve now grants no xp? Aight, gonna find someone to run maps. So on, and so on... Edit: Looking at OPs statement, it's funny cuz, going zoom zoom actually allowed me to reach Lv100. Was stuck in Lv98 for more than a year, and decided to farm XP, redirected most of my DPS into defenses, Grace/Determination+evasion/armour flask, grab as much life % as I could between other defense mechanisms, and there I went, slowly doing maps, I'd approach packs slowly so they wouldn't rush me. At level 99, with 90% I died (after dying multiple times at 40%, 60%, etc) and what saved me was speccing speed stuff and zoom zoom through maps. Now is this my fault? Hell no, the game has become a convoluted shitshow, there's too much stuff being thrown at the player, and if you don't have a meta build where you can have decent DPS while having good defenses, you're f'ed. Pff, who even plays Standard? Last edited by ZarkBit#6794 on Dec 22, 2025, 11:56:11 AM
|
|
" No idea what dot cap has to do with anything, and don't take this as a slight, but the fact that it took you this long in Standard league to hit level 100 while having a Mageblood and legacy flasks equipped is crazy. " All of the mechanics you list have been adjusted and balanced over the years based on GGG's datapoints of time invested vs XP returned so you can assume they're balanced properly and won't be touched. You are missing the point here to be honest, as the thread's ask is to have dying be of any meaning considering how easy it is to gain XP. Just to give you a frame of reference, when I leveled my Chieftain this league it took me ~5 hours to beat the campaign, another hour to hit level 75, gear up and start running Simulacrums solo. I hit level 90 in ~12 hours total. That's a joke (not literally, see proof).  " No one is out here saying PoE is easy. It shouldn't be. If you are feeling overwhelmed as a 10 year veteran, that's fine. I also get why you're playing Standard. Just understand that the game is balanced around temporary league and the vast majority don't take the slow approach like you do. The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
|
|
