Annual reminder that XP loss on death is bad design.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

It is the ezmode of the game yes, but it doesn't have to be completely pain free. You are supposed to progress in games like these. Not just get things handed to you.

You stated the problem yourself. You just get your 6l and blast. That is the problem, I don't know how else to spell it out for you. You are completely bypassing part of the game buying up gear like that to skip progression.

dying at 98-99 in sc is not huge punishment. If you're level 99 and can't stay alive thats on you.

What progression? The whole point of trade league is that you can buy all your gear instead of having to slog through hours of grinding to get it yourself. That's why I play trade. So I can farm up X amount of chaos/divines and buy all my bis gear and get my build done as quick as possible, complete my atlas, do quest exarch and eater and the moment I've killed them go and spend 100c on maven and uber elder voidstones so I can have 4 of em the moment I've gotten to t16s. Then I start farming my favorite map after speedrunning favored map slots and maven invitations. This is simply what the game has evolved into.

They should probably rework the endgame quests to give you 4 voidstones instead of only 2, farming uber elder and maven invitations is slow af. Makes no sense that exarch and eater are tutorial quests which give you 2 of the voidstones, but then for the other 2 you gotta farm for hours on end. This is why people buy the maven and uber elder voidstones every league, and the people selling them make crazy amounts of currency. Nobody wants to do this slow progression.

And yes dying at lvl99 is a huge punishment, it feels horrible. And you'd only know how that feels like if you play on SC. Hours. Tens of hours of mapping deleted in an instant. That feels horrible, why do you think I play SC? Because I hate the idea of losing progression on death. That is why I'm never touching Hardcore in any game in my live, ever. Its pointless to me.

Dying in SC and seeing the exp bar go -10% feels like a forced HC mechanic in the SC mode of the game. It actually makes no sense at all.

That is the mindset of people that play games where you just drop in and play with the boys. Not games that are RPG related. Progression is one of the staple features of rpgs.

Yes youre right, you understand more about the punishment of death than i do. All those hours you lose, i know nothing about that.

The thing is. When you lose those hours, you gain nothing from it but bitterness. Whenever I die and lose that time. I go back to the drawing board and attempt to solve whatever problem it was that made me die.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

That is the mindset of people that play games where you just drop in and play with the boys. Not games that are RPG related. Progression is one of the staple features of rpgs.

This is true if you are a new player. If you are experienced and not your first league you already know the drill and you speed run the game. Trade league is market driven game. You have to farm fast there is no time for the journey and such. It was when the game was new but after that if you aren't keeping up with the crowd you will be left behind badly.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

The thing is. When you lose those hours, you gain nothing from it but bitterness. Whenever I die and lose that time. I go back to the drawing board and attempt to solve whatever problem it was that made me die.

There is no such thing unless you are completely new to the game and you do need to learn stuff. Most experienced players know why they die and they know that the game is an unbalanced mess everything just one shots even with several defensive layers. Not every build can stack 100k armor with 10 endurance charges or 90/90 maxblock es regen or 90 resists etc.
And again the best is still if you off screen everything before they can even see you. Sadly this is what the players like. The one shots is only a thing because of the fast combat. There is no other way to combat such clear speed but this is what people want.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And yes dying at lvl99 is a huge punishment, it feels horrible. And you'd only know how that feels like if you play on SC. Hours. Tens of hours of mapping deleted in an instant.

As someone who has played both sc and hc I can comfortably say that a death in sc feels not horrible at all. You lose a few exp but that's about it, not the end of the world or something you should lose sleep over.

It's a little bit of a wild take to say that someone needs to play SC in order to feel the weight of the death penalty, cause if a HC player dies they lose their entire character and not just a tiny bit of exp, and this character alone often got a much higher net worth of time and currency investment compared to the sc characters getting skill checked by the 10% death penalty.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

It actually makes no sense at all.

True it makes no sense that the death penalty sits at 10% in todays version of the game. Should be 25% or 50% giving how much easier it is to gain exp these days, not only in terms of raw exp/h but also in terms of accessibility of player power :)

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

I go back to the drawing board and attempt to solve whatever problem it was that made me die.

And this is how it should be even in SC. But instead we have players go wild and lose their sleep over mere 10% each league over and over again. You'd think that hundreds of deaths would have taught them something, or send out a obvious message. But instead of fixing the problems causing the deaths they keep running into a wall and blame the game for every death. Kinda sad

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

And this is how it should be even in SC. But instead we have players go wild and lose their sleep over mere 10% each league over and over again. You'd think that hundreds of deaths would have taught them something, or send out a obvious message. But instead of fixing the problems causing the deaths they keep running into a wall and blame the game for every death. Kinda sad

Yes, and I'll keep complaining until its fixed. Exp loss has no place in SC, its just a forced pseudo-hardcore mechanic. I'm playing softcore, not mediumcore. I don't want to lose anything on death, thanks.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

And this is how it should be even in SC. But instead we have players go wild and lose their sleep over mere 10% each league over and over again. You'd think that hundreds of deaths would have taught them something, or send out a obvious message. But instead of fixing the problems causing the deaths they keep running into a wall and blame the game for every death. Kinda sad

Yes, and I'll keep complaining until its fixed. Exp loss has no place in SC, its just a forced pseudo-hardcore mechanic. I'm playing softcore, not mediumcore. I don't want to lose anything on death, thanks.

There is nothing to fix. Be lucky you don't have to repair your gear when you die.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

And this is how it should be even in SC. But instead we have players go wild and lose their sleep over mere 10% each league over and over again. You'd think that hundreds of deaths would have taught them something, or send out a obvious message. But instead of fixing the problems causing the deaths they keep running into a wall and blame the game for every death. Kinda sad

Yes, and I'll keep complaining until its fixed. Exp loss has no place in SC, its just a forced pseudo-hardcore mechanic. I'm playing softcore, not mediumcore. I don't want to lose anything on death, thanks.

There is nothing to fix. Be lucky you don't have to repair your gear when you die.

Durability wouldn't even make any sense in this game anyway. What happens to someone's perfect mirror-tier item if it reaches 0 durability, does it get deleted? Many people would not like that at all lol


All I'm saying is that exp loss is some kinda weird mediumcore mechanic that should not be in softcore, the easiest mode of the game.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

All I'm saying is that exp loss is some kinda weird mediumcore mechanic that should not be in softcore, the easiest mode of the game.

don't bother mate there is always people in every game that white knighting flawed systems. Death penalty is straight up backwards progress. It can be fixed and keeping it as I explained. It would still be punishing and still set you back but not as terrible as it is now.

Imagine you logging in with like 50% xp you die twice to something out of your control or unavoidbale then you realise bam 2 hours gone and it would have been better if you stayed logged off because you would still have more xp than actually trying to play. That is crazy.

I would gladly trade in xp boosts services for fixing xp loss death penalty. Actually people would have to grind maps to level up.

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Ispita#4020 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

All I'm saying is that exp loss is some kinda weird mediumcore mechanic that should not be in softcore, the easiest mode of the game.

don't bother mate there is always people in every game that white knighting flawed systems. Death penalty is straight up backwards progress. It can be fixed and keeping it as I explained. It would still be punishing and still set you back but not as terrible as it is now.

Imagine you logging in with like 50% xp you die twice to something out of your control or unavoidbale then you realise bam 2 hours gone and it would have been better if you stayed logged off because you would still have more xp than actually trying to play. That is crazy.

Yep it is crazy, exp loss just deletes the hours you already put in, and then you need to spend more time to get back to where you were lmao, its super backwards design. Many times I've found myself at 70-80% exp thinking "if I didn't lose exp today I would have already leveled up". That just sucks and feels bad.

People defend this mechanic like its the 1 genius thing keeping this game popular, when it really isn't.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Yep it is crazy, exp loss just deletes the hours you already put in, and then you need to spend more time to get back to where you were lmao, its super backwards design. Many times I've found myself at 70-80% exp thinking "if I didn't lose exp today I would have already leveled up". That just sucks and feels bad.

But is it a really issue? I lost like 50% from 99-100lvl and what? 25Maps? Where is the problem exactly?