Popular Opinion: In 3.28 League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

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Hornsent#1110 wrote:

They are supposed to teach you something new about the game. Also since they're easy, they're for new and casual players so they can get rank 1 armour set.

That is a good point, it gets new people thinking, oh there is a vendor recipe for this.

It would be useful if those vendor recipes were actually helpful and not completely outdated. And if they are supposed to be tutorial material, then they’re in the wrong place. They should show up as some random side quest that teaches players a few nice-to-have vendor tech, not as a challenge checkmark you have to go out of your way to complete. Most of those old vendor recipes are no longer useful and are automatically skipped unless you deliberately force yourself to do them. At this point they’re so outdated you could basically nuke most of them since they aren’t needed anymore.

I really wish the challenges were what their name implies.

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I really wish the challenges were what their name implies.

They are never changing, and are perfect at the purpose they serve now: a way to attract players again and again every league, which is the actual statistic they look at in terms of player retention btw. Challenges and free mtx keep a lot of people coming back for each new league, its fine the way it is.

You can always go play SSF or Ruthless and do 8/8 there to show off the badge. How others enjoy SC Trade does not affect you.


Anyway can't wait to buy more challenge carries with my hard-earned divine orbs next league. Its always fun, because that's how I enjoy this game.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I really wish the challenges were what their name implies.

They are never changing, and are perfect at the purpose they serve now: a way to attract players again and again every league, which is the actual statistic they look at in terms of player retention btw. Challenges and free mtx keep a lot of people coming back for each new league, its fine the way it is.

You can always go play SSF or Ruthless and do 8/8 there to show off the badge. How others enjoy SC Trade does not affect you.


Anyway can't wait to buy more challenge carries with my hard-earned divine orbs next league. Its always fun, because that's how I enjoy this game.

Or I can ask GGG to fix Challenges to be what their name implies - and that's what I'm doing (and yes, I do chill in SSF Ruthless now, and R deserve separate rewards and totem)

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

They are never changing, and are perfect at the purpose they serve now

Well, this isn’t quite true. the current system is not good as it is and is in dire need of a rework. So changes could happen any upcoming league, yet since it supposedly ‘never’ changes, why are we still here in the first place and why would anyone fight players who just want a better system if we are 100% convinced it never changes?

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

a way to attract players again and again every league, which is the actual statistic they look at in terms of player retention btw

Both are mistaken. Initially, players keep returning for fresh content and a revitalized economy. Easier challenges allow players to achieve their goals more quickly, which in turn causes retention to drop faster. Conversely, more engaging and enjoyable challenges help maintain player retention for longer, naturally slowing the decline of leagues over time

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

You can always go play SSF or Ruthless and do 8/8 there to show off the badge. How others enjoy SC Trade does not affect you.

Both Rutless and SSF do nothing to change the current flawed system. That is exactly why this topic exists and why so many are asking for something better. The opinion of one or two detractors does not reflect the majority. Most players want improved challenges and a better system, and the discussion here proves it. How others choose to enjoy their game and ask for improvements does not affect you. You are not even playing the game, so you would be even less affected by an overall better system that keeps players who do play more engaged

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Anyway can't wait to buy more challenge carries with my hard-earned divine orbs next league. Its always fun, because that's how I enjoy this game.

Well, if that is your way of ‘playing’ the game, that is all fine and cool. Personally, I play games to, well, you know, actually play them, not just watch others do it for me, which is essentially the same as letting others complete the content on your behalf. If being a mere observer were my thing, I would just be lurking on Twitch or YouTube, watching someone play the game I want to play myself. That might work for you since a browser streaming a game is far less demanding on hardware than actually running it.

Fortunately, the game is not balanced or designed around the preferences of a single player. It is only a matter of time before GGG addresses the long-standing issues with the challenge system, and they will likely go further by not only removing the cheesy shortcuts but also the tedious filler challenges.

Nah challenges are fine the way they are. Just an optional checklist for some free mtx. And who doesn't like free stuff?

If they touch them, make them more cringe to do or make it so I can't get my free mtx and totem decoration, I might not come back for a league. And that would be bad. The goal is to make sure people keep coming back every league, not to keep them playing for as long as possible. This was literally said in an official livestream. That's the real metric for player retention that is measured for this game by GGG. And challenges work perfectly to make sure certain players keep returning. So its fine.

Again, SSF exists. No reason to force everyone to play solo when its just a checkbox on character creation.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nah challenges are fine the way they are. Just an optional checklist for some free mtx. And who doesn't like free stuff?

If they touch them, make them more cringe to do or make it so I can't get my free mtx and totem decoration, I might not come back for a league. And that would be bad. The goal is to make sure people keep coming back every league, not to keep them playing for as long as possible. This was literally said in an official livestream. That's the real metric for player retention that is measured for this game by GGG. And challenges work perfectly to make sure certain players keep returning. So its fine.

Again, SSF exists. No reason to force everyone to play solo when its just a checkbox on character creation.

If I were to make a tally of how many times you have repeated the "just play SSF" argument over the course of this thread, how high would it be? And every time we tell you the same thing which is that the challenges themselves don't change whether you complete them in Trade or in SSF.

So at this point we have to assume one of three possibilities:

1) You can read just fine but choose to not understand what you are being told
2) You are in some shape or form unable to understand the argument in which case I want to respectfully say that I am sorry and will try to explain it in easier language. This is an inclusive community and I will do my best to accomodate your needs!
3) You are trying to disrupt the natural flow of conversation, in which case that needs to be considered trolling and I'd ask you kindly to stop

Either way, you are not Bill Murray and this isn't the set of Groundhog Day.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And who doesn't like free stuff?

Even if they make a change, it’s not as if the challenge MTX would suddenly become a paid feature. After all, players can still earn them simply by playing the game for free.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

If they touch them, make them more cringe to do or make it so I can't get my free mtx and totem decoration, I might not come back for a league. And that would be bad. The goal is to make sure people keep coming back every league, not to keep them playing for as long as possible. This was literally said in an official livestream. That's the real metric for player retention that is measured for this game by GGG.

You're right; their primary goal is to encourage players to return. And what achieves that? Compelling content. The current ongoing league, for example, died so quickly because there was nothing meaningful to do in endgame. Engaged players have also voiced their dissatisfaction with the lack of difficulty and variety in endgame content.

Offering more engaging challenges that capture players' interest is precisely what keeps them invested and eager to come back. The current system, which you describe as a "checklist" simply isn't captivating at this stage. It is clear as water that rich, engaging content is what draws players back into the game.
By providing players with more enjoyable and meaningful experiences, they naturally remain engaged and stick around for longer. And that's exactly what this topic is about and aiming for. I highly doubt that GGG would lose any sleep over a single person threatening to quit if a change occurs.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Again, SSF exists. No reason to force everyone to play solo when its just a checkbox on character creation.

SSF has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is about improving the challenge system, not choosing one game mode or another for no meaningful change to the flawed system. To be honest, the only time the mode would matter is if we were asking for SSF exclusive challenge changes. Addressing a fundamental flaw in the current challenge system has nothing to do with SSF on its own or whether players decide to play it or not.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

You're right; their primary goal is to encourage players to return. And what achieves that? Compelling content. The current ongoing league, for example, died so quickly because there was nothing meaningful to do in endgame. Engaged players have also voiced their dissatisfaction with the lack of difficulty and variety in endgame content.

Offering more engaging challenges that capture players' interest is precisely what keeps them invested and eager to come back. The current system, which you describe as a "checklist" simply isn't captivating at this stage.

What keeps people coming back is the feeling when you hear the divine tink sound effect. Making a lot of currency easily, then throwing it all into a House of Mirrors/Apothecary/Nimis card and doing harvest gamba. If you win you keep playing and make some cool build or buy some expensive item. If you lose then league over and wait for next patch. That is your average player. That's what I do, after I'm done with the easy checklist and buying a few carries.

I see no problems with the challenges, they're fine. They don't need to be harder, in fact its going in the opposite direction. They are getting easier, and more passive. I like that. I love completing 20 of them without even trying. It feels good. And the other gamemodes exist solely for people to make the game harder. So maybe they need an ultra-HC-SSF super giga nightmare mode for the game or something I dunno.


I literally play every league specifically because doing this easy,fun checklist feels good. And getting free mtx is nice. There are thousands of others who do the same. Changing that would make GGG lose way too much revenue. It just doesn't make sense.


The challenge system would be absolutely perfect if they outright remove T17s and Uber Bosses from them. Aspirational content doesn't belong in them, its not fun and not every build can do it. That's how challenges should be improved. I should be able to casually breeze through 40/40 on any build I feel like playing, now that would be fun.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

What keeps people coming back is the feeling when you hear the divine tink sound effect. Making a lot of currency easily, then throwing it all into a House of Mirrors/Apothecary/Nimis card and doing harvest gamba. If you win you keep playing and make some cool build or buy some expensive item. If you lose then league over and wait for next patch. That is your average player. That's what I do, after I'm done with the easy checklist and buying a few carries.

Players grind currency to build strong characters and engage with content. They do not gamble it away blindly, hoping to make a profit. Your approach of relying on luck and carries does not reflect the average player.
It stems from not knowing how to optimize a character or generate currency effectively, which is typical of a below-average player.

Most players focus on creating a powerful, optimized character to enjoy the league content. End of league gambling with leftover wealth is more of a fun indulgence, not how players generally progress throughout the league.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I see no problems with the challenges, they're fine. They don't need to be harder, in fact its going in the opposite direction. They are getting easier, and more passive. I like that. I love completing 20 of them without even trying. It feels good. And the other gamemodes exist solely for people to make the game harder. So maybe they need an ultra-HC-SSF super giga nightmare mode for the game or something I dunno.

You fail to recognize the problem because you do not engage with the challenges yourself. Instead, you rely on others to handle the tedious work while you sit back, avoiding the effort required to experience the challenges firsthand. It is unsurprising that you perceive no issues with the system, having never truly interacted with it.

The system clearly requires improvement, not only to eliminate exploitative shortcuts but also to make the challenges genuinely enjoyable and engaging for all players.

Gamemodes, such as SSF or Hardcore, are designed to offer alternative experiences with different rules and higher difficulty. The core functionality of challenges, however, is independent of gamemodes, as they operate consistently across all modes. So telling others to play mode X does nothing about the core system being bad.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I literally play every league specifically because doing this easy,fun checklist feels good. And getting free mtx is nice. There are thousands of others who do the same. Changing that would make GGG lose way too much revenue. It just doesn't make sense.

Players spend money on the game when they are enjoying it and having fun, which becomes less likely if the game keeps getting watered down or lacks engaging content. SOme of the past leagues have been a good prime example for that.

On a side note, since you’ve already said you like free mtx and do not spend money on the game, is there really any revenue to be lost if GGG makes a change?

It is the same principle as losing a player over a change meant to boost retention because more players end up playing longer. Losing someone who never generates revenue in exchange for players who are willing to spend because the content is better is clearly the better outcome. It does not take any business intelligence to see that one result outweighs the other. In that sense, everything you are saying actually supports improving the challenge system to increase both player retention and revenue.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

The challenge system would be absolutely perfect if they outright remove T17s and Uber Bosses from them. Aspirational content doesn't belong in them, its not fun and not every build can do it. That's how challenges should be improved. I should be able to casually breeze through 40/40 on any build I feel like playing, now that would be fun.

The challenge system is already optional side content and can be considered aspirational, since your average player does not actively engage with the challenges or care about microtransactions. Most players simply enjoy the game, experience the patch, and move on.

Given that challenges are already aspirational, it only makes sense to improve the system and make it live up to its name. A set of forty fun and engaging challenges would give players something meaningful to aim for and encourage them to stick around, even if the rewards are still free mtx.

After all, when players spend more time completing enjoyable challenges, leagues naturally last longer. This is far better than having players quit in the first week or two after speedrunning the challenges, only to complain about content they have never really engaged with or claim that it is too difficult because they never built a functional character throughout the league.


All in all, even if you are not fond of the idea, it is encouraging to see that you still recognize what the game truly needs and aspires to achieve. This only underscores the importance of a better and more enjoyable challenge system.