lol... Why call it crafting? It's just gambling.

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mnieradko#6070 wrote:

It's funny that people are trying to apply real-world crafting/manufacturing/etc. situations to POE crafting.

Based on the insanely bad RNG and random outcomes of POE "crafting", here would be an analog for a carpenter making a wooden chair.

- 20% chance of the chair having 5 legs instead of 4.
- 20% chance of the chair having 3 legs instead of 4.
- 20% chance of the chair having 4 legs of different lengths.
- 20% chance of the chair collapsing when you sit on it, regardless of weight.
- 19% chance of the chair being double its intended height.
- 1% chance of the chair having its intended height, 4 legs of equal length, and structural stability

There's a giant gaping abyss between "this is deterministic and easy and boring" and "here's 50 steps of horrible RNG gambling have fun". Both POE1 and POE2 "crafting" are firmly towards the latter.

- The devs here decided a while back that useful powerful item drops ON THE GROUND were not allowed, so they pivoted to "crafting" gameplay
- This game then became a currency simulator, not an ARPG, in which you need abundant currency becuase virtually every "crafting" pathway is painful outside of the crafting bench in your hideout
- Said currency has now been mostly removed, so the game is neither a currency simulator nor an ARPG

Yes, exactly this.

If I took my guitar to a craftsman to have it improved and it was returned to me as a crappy broken violin, that's not crafting.

Going through a dozen gyrations in an attempt to narrow down the gambling results is not crafting.

"Repeat this step until it randomly hits" is not crafting.

The crafting bench is one of the few things in the game that resembles actual crafting. Everything else is gambling.

Chris Wilson and his buddies probably loved to roll grand charms with perfect gems in diablo 2 or "craft" a very good 2/20 amulet with the horadric cube and from there it evolved and the chaos orb is kind of the identity of poe where you just reroll every stat on a rare item.

Diablo 2 amulet crafting was extremely low odds to hit something actual powerful and pricey. I think this is where they got their inspiration. To be fair with fractured mods and meta crafts the odds are kind of ok to hit something good these days. Just look at poe 2 EA when it was fresh or poe 1 in 2014. It can be way worse than gambling for items in poe 1 today! We got decent odds now, hehe

> We got decent odds now, hehe

No, improving chances from 0.001% to 0.01% is still not crafting. You have been successfully gaslighted by GGG. Crafting is what Last Epoch has and I wouldn't mind if GGG just shamelessly copied their solution.
I just gave up after not getting cast speed on 8 focus crafts using "deterministic crafting". This is a joke.

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qdlt#5265 wrote:

Crafting is what Last Epoch has

LE also comes down to nothing but gambling at its core, just wrapped in a better looking UI.

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qdlt#5265 wrote:

> We got decent odds now, hehe

No, improving chances from 0.001% to 0.01% is still not crafting. You have been successfully gaslighted by GGG. Crafting is what Last Epoch has and I wouldn't mind if GGG just shamelessly copied their solution.
I just gave up after not getting cast speed on 8 focus crafts using "deterministic crafting". This is a joke.

"Crafting" in LE is not as good as you think it is. Sure you can slam desired affixes onto your items until you run out of FP, then what? It's the equivalent of using a essence + bench craft in PoE. You get something very usable but it's far from good, let alone a endgame item.

As a matter of fact high end crafting in LE is just as fucked, if not worse. Good luck crafting meaningful exalted items with multiple T7 or even T7 T6 T5 T5 mods. It gets even worse when you need to seal a affix or set affix before that - even more so since EHG nuked imprints this season.

And don't pretend there's no gambling in LE either. Rune of Evolution? Check. Rune of Havoc? Check. Rune of Redemption? Check. Want to remove an unwanted affix from your item? You better pray that your Rune of Removal hits with your Glyph of Hope proccing on top, else good luck finishing your base on what little FP remains.

Divines in PoE can be used infinitely, Rune of Refinement eats your FP and you might not even get a high tier roll on the important affixes.

Want to Julra slam your LP2 and LP3 uniques? Congratulations, you now need to prepare a good base with the desired affixes (preferably 7 7, 7 6 or settle for 7 5) and win the coin toss. If you manage to get your slam, impressive - very nice, you can now gamble with the new Rune of Corruption.

And no, slamming LP1 uniques is not crafting.

Since we're talking about gambling, what about Nemesis egg? And Turtle while we're at it? Unless you're extremely lucky you won't get your hands on specific LP2 or LP3 uniques, ever. It's a endless cycle of spamming Nemesis into Turtle and, if you somehow manage to get a high LP variant of your build defining unique, you still have to slam it as mentioned above.

That's a lot of layers that require gambling for a game that has horrible balance and effectively caps out at 500 corruption, which the average player never reaches.

For all intents and purposes you can beat the game on full LP1 unique builds, all of which require zero crafting whatsoever, rendering the oh so powerful crafting completely obsolete.

I don't know mate, this isn't the gotcha you think it is. At least in PoE every upgrade really is noticeable because unlike LE, it has a variety of content and a much better progression curve that doesn't fall off after 5 hours once you've reached maps.

today i learned you cant chance orb a synthesis implict item

I feel like most of the people that play POE haven't ever played a game that had a crafting system that was semi-realistic. Something like EVE Online, SWTOR, or even heavier than that on the harvesting/crafting side. These games were inspired by different lineages of game development. It's two totally different crowds whether you want your crafting to be largely deterministic with a little RNG, or the opposite and largely RNG with a little bit of user control.

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NavonDuSandau#6212 wrote:

I feel like most of the people that play POE haven't ever played a game that had a crafting system that was semi-realistic. Something like EVE Online, SWTOR, or even heavier than that on the harvesting/crafting side. These games were inspired by different lineages of game development. It's two totally different crowds whether you want your crafting to be largely deterministic with a little RNG, or the opposite and largely RNG with a little bit of user control.

those games are MMOs and have completely different settings and user requirements.

If you want to quote an actual arpg with determinitic crafting name grim dawn.
good luck finding the materials(or blueprints) through;)

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tsunamikun#0433 wrote:

If you want to quote an actual arpg with determinitic crafting name grim dawn.
good luck finding the materials(or blueprints) through;)

What about the hardcore arpg called Minecraft?

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

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tsunamikun#0433 wrote:

If you want to quote an actual arpg with determinitic crafting name grim dawn.
good luck finding the materials(or blueprints) through;)

What about the hardcore arpg called Minecraft?

no because mionecraft is, as the others mentioned, far outside the scope. yes you could play it as an arpg but is it the focus of the game? lol no.