Players have less recovery is such a terrible map mod

Challenging map mods are fine in theory if there is a reward system for overcoming this. Unfortunately, this game has no consistent endgame reward system for those who don't treat is a a job. Therefore, most rare red maps are automatically deleted or scoured and alch again, but that takes more clicks and I'm lazy.

in this thread:

people who think using an instant recovery flask to deal with a map mod is a "build defining feature".

builds are meant to work as is.

if you require to change your gear in order to accomodate a map mod, you've essentially created a different build.

might as well say all ele builds can do ele reflect, all you need to do is equip rings that prevent reflect damage.

lol

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exsea wrote:

in this thread:

people who think using an instant recovery flask to deal with a map mod is a "build defining feature".

builds are meant to work as is.

if you require to change your gear in order to accomodate a map mod, you've essentially created a different build.

might as well say all ele builds can do ele reflect, all you need to do is equip rings that prevent reflect damage.

lol

Lets be real if you do a small swap somewhere it's still the same build lol
It's not like your witch suddenly begins to cast arc instead of eye of winter or your ranger begins to leap slam into enemy packs with his bow just because you make a small change with a ring, a passive point, pantheons or maybe even flask swap lol.
This is not Diablo 4 and a small change won't break your build as you don't lose a build enabling 3000% mo

Players who are too lazy to roll maps all day long could plan their build accordingly to fit as many mods as possible into the build.
It even helps with t17 maps as lots of people complain about the so scary and evil chaos sink.
Just make use of provided mechanics and build a better character, it's that simple or just deal with the fact that you can't run every mod 100% safe.

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Pashid wrote:

Lets be real if you do a small swap somewhere it's still the same build lol
It's not like your witch suddenly begins to cast arc instead of eye of winter or your ranger begins to leap slam into enemy packs with his bow just because you make a small change with a ring, a passive point, pantheons or maybe even flask swap lol.
This is not Diablo 4 and a small change won't break your build as you don't lose a build enabling 3000% mo

Players who are too lazy to roll maps all day long could plan their build accordingly to fit as many mods as possible into the build.
It even helps with t17 maps as lots of people complain about the so scary and evil chaos sink.
Just make use of provided mechanics and build a better character, it's that simple or just deal with the fact that you can't run every mod 100% safe.

Those solutions of yours be it "just reroll it" or "just change your gear around" aren't really solutions though because they are symptoms of the problem. Mapmods are supposed to allow players to make maps more difficult and more rewarding. Mods that interfere heavily with fundamental stats of your build to the point of disabling them do not increase difficulty they are just a forced reroll.
Yes, that's probably GGGs intention but i still think it's bad design. And it's unneccessary on top. There are plenty of mods that increase difficulty in a healthy manner. Anything that buffs mobs for example. No half decent build gets bricked by a single damage mod on a map. Most good builds can roll 2 or 3 damage without caring. Can't speak for others here but i'd even be fine with life regen mods for monsters. They have counter measures and if your build isn't zdps you won't need the counter measures in the first place.
They also introduced area effect mods like volatile cores which increase difficulty without just saying "your build doesn't work here". Expand lighter versions of them to t16 and below to make it more likely for people to get tough maps and be forced to reroll if they can't handle it.
People would still have to reroll maps to get them to a difficulty they can handle without instabricks. Minor interferences with build mechanics like reduced SS are also still fine because even builds using SS will still have measures against attacks of all elements so they won't just stop functioning because SS is reduced or even removed. Same with block or armor. Fundamentally i still think those mods are flawed design but with their impact being small i wouldn't even mind it as much. But reflect and the 3 mods that remove your sustain are just plain stupid followed by the reduced max res mod.
Yes, we are all capable of spending a chaos to reroll them, doesn't take a genius to do that, you could probably train a monkey to do so, so you can keep your "git good" nonsense to your self, but it's stupid anyway. I actually run reflect maps on my build because i have an elementary mastery wheel so i can just swap 1 passive and be done with it. But i still think it's stupid that i have to that. All that mod accomplishes is being a bother/currency tax.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

Yes, that's probably GGGs intention but i still think it's bad design. And it's unneccessary on top. There are plenty of mods that increase difficulty in a healthy manner. Anything that buffs mobs for example. No half decent build gets bricked by a single damage mod on a map. Most good builds can roll 2 or 3 damage without caring. Can't speak for others here but i'd even be fine with life regen mods for monsters. They have counter measures and if your build isn't zdps you won't need the counter measures in the first place.

i m pretty convinced that GGG is making changes to the game to make it unnecessarily punishing.

i've pointed out bloodmagic being removed as an example. i would also reemphasize when reduced recovery was introduced it was balanced around reducing player's recovery by half more or less. but now its 2024 and atlas passives push it all the way up to the point you might as well assume you dont get any recovery.

but in all honesty i ve said my piece and i do believe that some people just prefer the game to be unenjoyable to most of the playerbase.

What is this logic lmfao

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exsea wrote:

people who think using an instant recovery flask to deal with a map mod is a "build defining feature".

builds are meant to work as is.

if you require to change your gear in order to accomodate a map mod, you've essentially created a different build.

Just becuase I threw on Sibyl's and changed a pantheon around doesnt mean I am playing a different build lmfao.

That would be like me saying I am playing a different build because I threw on spell suppress for the 250% challenges or I threw on rarity gear to farm gold.

I have like 3-4 different setups for the exact same skill and character, just tweaks to its defenses and damage. Its still the same build.

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player's recovery by half more or less. but now its 2024 and atlas passives push it all the way up to the point you might as well assume you dont get any recovery.

I guess we cant untrait the tree now either.

So we cant reroll our maps, and we cant unspec our tree to run something that our build cannot handle.

Lmfao.... wow.

I think the issue is with too much mod magnitude increase in general, it pushes some of those mods from serious but doable to straight up brick for almost all characters.

For a number of leagues you were able to increase the modifier magnitude by 30%. 60% if you had Wandering Path. And that Wandering Path tree already made some really nasty mods like 96% less recovery or 96% less aura effect.

Today we can make these mods 100%. You have no aura effect, no curse effect, no life recovery at all (leech, aura, flask - nothing lol).

If you don't like to run unfair mods like this, unspec some of these modifier effect nodes from your atlas. Don't simply copy and paste empy or fubgun trees. These people play 80 hours per week and have mirror tier builds. Your character will get torn to shreds if you try to copy their strats.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

All that mod accomplishes is being a bother/currency tax.

I'd rather GGG just make map device crafts more expensive to compensate for not being required to reroll map mods designed to brick certain builds.

No really. Just get rid of "no regen", "reflect x", "reduced recovery", "can't leech", etc, and just double, triple, or quadruple the cost of all map device crafts as GGG deems necessary.

GGG wants a currency sink, I get it. There are better, less irritating ways to go about it than making it so corrupted maps can't be run if they happen to roll certain mods you can't fix.

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Mashgesture wrote:

What is this logic lmfao


Lmfao.... wow.

lmfao wonder why ggg removed bloodmagic as a mod? lmfao i guess we ll never know

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exsea wrote:

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Mashgesture wrote:

What is this logic lmfao


Lmfao.... wow.

lmfao wonder why ggg removed bloodmagic as a mod? lmfao i guess we ll never know

They were probably playing a different build back then, they changed a pantheon power and went with a topaz flask instead of a ruby flask.

Completely different build obviously.