Will the Crucible League go Core?

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You know what is ridiculous? One shotting ubers with 70-100 div build that can also map and has rather decent defences. You are not crying over any justice, you are crying because you're not gonna be able to one-shot ubers, booohooo

The most similar, non crucible tree dependent build, with a similar budget, that can one shot all ubers is a self-chill explosive trap trickster. The cold conversion variant of explode totems is not really that much cheaper than alternatives capable of the same or more.

It's really not that big of a deal man. Definitely not rising to the level of ridiculous. I'd probably reserve ridiculous for the SST build, which can literally tape down a key and AFK for 7 rewards in a sim30. That'll be impacted by the inevitable VC nerf though.

It just doesn't make any sense. There are stronger ST builds in standard (billions of DPS), and there are way faster builds in standard while stacking MF (explode totems is a mediocre mapper at best).

The only unique thing about explode totems was accessibility, especially for the PF poison variant. It was pretty low investment to put together an immortal PF that can kill everything. The trickster variant is no way near immortal until you invest heavily (like Rudy's delve sabo). Explode totems was just a good and cheap way to get DPS on a defensive focused character (like legacy seismic trap). It's not BiS in league let alone standard. It's just very popular due to accessibility (probably more do to with the PF rework). If the explode node was rarer (like say rampage), it wouldn't be nearly as popular (and way more expensive).

If you actually want to play standard full time, there are so many options that are just as good or better (MF is the way to go in standard for currency). Anyone who says otherwise simply has no clue what's available in standard or is intentionally misrepresenting the truth for whatever reason (economic I suspect).

Unless there's a significant technical investment required to copy over to standard, then absolutely everything in league should just go to standard. It's really that simple. There's not a hope in hell they can balance standard, so picking and choosing random stuff to void is just silly. Standard is like a trophy room where you can be nostalgic.

Also the ex -> div change showed us how little they care about the standard economy, so it just doesn't make sense. This isn't about balance, it's about some other concern GGG has, like participation in the next league I guess.

If they really wanted to balance standard then they would have deleted "Mantra of Flames" from the game completely for example. Like you're probably not reaching 5k depth on explode totems...

i mean, this was kinda expected.
crucible added some of the worst powercreep we have ever seen.
degenerate totem explode builds that we expected to get nerfed mid-league (they weren't nerfed)
flat ES nodes whilst forgetting that you added an item with 1000% ES mod two leagues ago and this item takes an already good build to oneshot ubers territory


hopefully they'll rethink cheif and guardian reworks because they are pretty damn bad.

Self-chill explosive trap trickster can be most similar but is not even close to how explody totem crazy is for same currency spent. You can stand right in the middle of 8 mod 100+ quant Feared invitation and just one-shot everything not even moving from the spot like it was regular guardians invitation. You don't care AT ALL what mods are rolled there. And that's still while having 6-7k life and ES combined, 70%+ spell suppression + lucky, grace/determination/haste, chaos res capped. If you want to build similarly crazy explosive trap trickster (in terms of DPS) it will have like 2k life and 500 ES or you need to invest heavily.

And I do agree, there are builds that are stronger but level of investment is completely different. Nothing will really happen if explody mod will be nerfed from 600% life to let's say 400%. Apart of some dudes crying because they actually need to understand boss mechanics.

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Self-chill explosive trap trickster can be most similar but is not even close to how explody totem crazy is for same currency spent. You can stand right in the middle of 8 mod 100+ quant Feared invitation and just one-shot everything not even moving from the spot like it was regular guardians invitation.

I feel like you're moving the goalposts here. You can one shot ubers on approximately the same budget and play style w/ explosive traps (or other trap / mine / totem builds). You can make much faster and cheaper (with MF!) builds. So sure, maybe (maybe!) explode totems was the best value per currency for an 8 mode feared (honestly who cares), this isn't even remotely close to a reason to nerf it. Oh and BTW you are definitely putting in more than 100d on explode totems so you can completely ignore mechanics in an 8 mod feared. I guess it depends on when, but if you priced that with last week's prices there's no chance.

On poeninja (I know, not perfect representation) 74% of devouring totem builds are pathfinders. Sabo at 8% and Trickster at 7%, so if we assume they are both cold convesion (probably are) that's 15%. The popularity of this build is absolutely due to PF and accessiblity. Look at rejuv totem and it's 79% pathfinder... If we look at other popular builds, TS deadeye is 85%. I mean c'mon, arguing that trickster cold convert totem explode is the problem is a bit of a stretch (and objectively false regardless). The trickster / sabo variant is irrelevant to this discussion, and a crappy argument anyways, IMO.

There are so many builds with the pathfinder rework that are potentially broken on standard. Far more than explode totems. Nerfing totem damage from 600% to 400% will basically have zero impact on the pathfinder variant which was easily dot capped anyways.

Should this build have been nerfed during the league? Absolutely! So should have poison SRS last league (or practically poison anything). What about poison TS this league? What about SST w/ bonkers crucible ES node Emperor's Vigilance (I have one of these btw and it's way more broken and it's going to be worth multi mirror in standard).

It's just a dumb precedent IMO. Don't pretend to balance for standard, it's busted by design. AND THAT'S OK!!!! It's literally the thing that makes standard kind of fun.

All these standard andies in replies lmaooo

Will Crucible mobs become core?? Thinking Frostbearer minion for Necro Spectre build. Anyone?

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rapind wrote:

It's just a dumb precedent IMO. Don't pretend to balance for standard, it's busted by design. AND THAT'S OK!!!! It's literally the thing that makes standard kind of fun.

I'm not saying it's the problem, I don't care if it's nerfed or not, nor I care about economy on standard (if there is any). I'm saying I do understand why would they want to nerf it and it was quite expected outcome as it's unproportionally good for the investment in general.

Example I gave was based on my own experience as that's the version I've played. It doesn't matter if it's feared or ubers, it's the best bosser for the investment and accessibility. You agreed yourself that it should have been nerfed but GGG nearly never nerfs builds during the league (sometimes even keeping bugged builds to adjust them when league ends ex. detonate dead and corpse life).

I just don't get why would someone complain so much about it.

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rapind wrote:

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It's just a dumb precedent IMO. Don't pretend to balance for standard, it's busted by design. AND THAT'S OK!!!! It's literally the thing that makes standard kind of fun.

It's not "balancing", it's just to sell the new League. If it turns out to be slightly crappy League - many will go play Standard on Totem Build. Let's be real here. With current Atlas-Three the game doesn't need any Leagues whatsoever. Especially crappy ones.

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rapind wrote:

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Self-chill explosive trap trickster can be most similar but is not even close to how explody totem crazy is for same currency spent. You can stand right in the middle of 8 mod 100+ quant Feared invitation and just one-shot everything not even moving from the spot like it was regular guardians invitation.

I feel like you're moving the goalposts here. You can one shot ubers on approximately the same budget and play style w/ explosive traps (or other trap / mine / totem builds). You can make much faster and cheaper (with MF!) builds. So sure, maybe (maybe!) explode totems was the best value per currency for an 8 mode feared (honestly who cares), this isn't even remotely close to a reason to nerf it. Oh and BTW you are definitely putting in more than 100d on explode totems so you can completely ignore mechanics in an 8 mod feared. I guess it depends on when, but if you priced that with last week's prices there's no chance.

On poeninja (I know, not perfect representation) 74% of devouring totem builds are pathfinders. Sabo at 8% and Trickster at 7%, so if we assume they are both cold convesion (probably are) that's 15%. The popularity of this build is absolutely due to PF and accessiblity. Look at rejuv totem and it's 79% pathfinder... If we look at other popular builds, TS deadeye is 85%. I mean c'mon, arguing that trickster cold convert totem explode is the problem is a bit of a stretch (and objectively false regardless). The trickster / sabo variant is irrelevant to this discussion, and a crappy argument anyways, IMO.

There are so many builds with the pathfinder rework that are potentially broken on standard. Far more than explode totems. Nerfing totem damage from 600% to 400% will basically have zero impact on the pathfinder variant which was easily dot capped anyways.

Should this build have been nerfed during the league? Absolutely! So should have poison SRS last league (or practically poison anything). What about poison TS this league? What about SST w/ bonkers crucible ES node Emperor's Vigilance (I have one of these btw and it's way more broken and it's going to be worth multi mirror in standard).

It's just a dumb precedent IMO. Don't pretend to balance for standard, it's busted by design. AND THAT'S OK!!!! It's literally the thing that makes standard kind of fun.

agree and I'm sick of seeing people care so much about other people having a fun or easy time with 1% of the game's content (uber exarch/eater). doing that content as uber isn't even good because you're blocking better forbidden jewel drops by having the hidden jewels appear. nobody on earth should care that those bosses are dying in .01 seconds. it's a mid to below average mapping build which is like 90% of the game. but it's apparently fine for crazy TS MF builds to blast those away all day long with little to no nerfs ever, and now they get to have the craziest dps bows you've ever seen. if you're gonna be unreasonably jealous of someone it should be that, not totems lol.

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pocher wrote:

agree and I'm sick of seeing people care so much about other people having a fun or easy time with 1% of the game's content (uber exarch/eater). doing that content as uber isn't even good because you're blocking better forbidden jewel drops by having the hidden jewels appear. nobody on earth should care that those bosses are dying in .01 seconds. it's a mid to below average mapping build which is like 90% of the game. but it's apparently fine for crazy TS MF builds to blast those away all day long with little to no nerfs ever, and now they get to have the craziest dps bows you've ever seen. if you're gonna be unreasonably jealous of someone it should be that, not totems lol.

Why don't you make this crazy TS MF build then? :D