3.20 Balance Manifesto: Eldritch Altars

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Raghin wrote:

I think I like this post but lack enough knowledge to say whether its actually good?

More clear reward choices from altars is great.

Awakened gems from boss farming DEFINITELY a win.

Also actually allows a setting where boss killing characters can farm maven & mob clearing characters can farm influence. Gives a nice difference between the two when players are building their character (baring content facerolling characters).

This is overall a fairly significant nerf.
It definitely feels intentionally misleading.


While the % is confusing, ultimately its less mobs from altars.
" Currency Rewards from Influenced Minions no longer drop in stacks larger than 1 "

one of the bigger headlines of the nerf

" On the whole, Scarabs will be offered a lot less than before from Altars. However, we don't want them to be too scarce in general "

People are thinking scarabs will be more common. The keyword is "too scarce".
There will definitely be less scarabs overall, and less cheaper investment options as they can now convert to higher tiers

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Eldritch Altars are currently too rewarding, so much so that they create a disincentive for any out-of-map gameplay unless it is comparably rewarding.

Seriously, your altars downside is too OP , 100%??? Who came out with the numbers? Have you actually check tru every downside n impact on players if it's 100%???


The rewards are fine, but both the altar downside is too much to handle when stack 2 or more altars, those numbers will not add up n be great for players at all, I seriously asking GGG to do an actual check on this.

I would prefer your end nerf the altar side effects by 50% rather than lowering the drop

So this is just another nerf instead of "buff" , why keep making drops harder for us?

Can GGG actually NERF things that has negative effects on us instead of buffing it to making it worse?

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vortex226 wrote:

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Eldritch Altars are currently too rewarding, so much so that they create a disincentive for any out-of-map gameplay unless it is comparably rewarding.

Seriously, your altars downside is too OP , 100%??? Who came out with the numbers? Have you actually check tru every downside n impact on players if it's 100%???


The rewards are fine, but both the altar downside is too much to handle when stack 2 or more altars, those numbers will not add up n be great for players at all, I seriously asking GGG to do an actual check on this.

I would prefer your end nerf the altar side effects by 50% rather than lowering the drop

So this is just another nerf instead of "buff" , why keep making drops harder for us?

Can GGG actually NERF things that has negative effects on us instead of buffing it to making it worse?

Think you may need to re-read the change as it should have the intended effect of attending to the issue that you've noted i.e. "both the altar downside is too much to handle when stack 2 or more altars". Not all altars spawning with increased effect = fewer stacked downside mechanics.

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Xzorn wrote:

In what game are Altars too rewarding? The best thing you can get is a high tier base to craft on which is RNG x10 to get something worth using and that's mostly passive points.

Gems and my 824th chisel, worthless low end currency.
Half the community don't even use Scarabs now.

Someone please explain how Altars were ever close to rewarding, let alone too rewarding.

Spam 24 maps to fight a boss is monotonous enough. Thanks.

Bought a mage blood off blasting altar maps nonstop. awakened sextant + patients + eldritch currency en masse = divines

GGG said the word nerf. Reddit isn't going to like that.

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KtQ wrote:

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vortex226 wrote:

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Eldritch Altars are currently too rewarding, so much so that they create a disincentive for any out-of-map gameplay unless it is comparably rewarding.

Seriously, your altars downside is too OP , 100%??? Who came out with the numbers? Have you actually check tru every downside n impact on players if it's 100%???


The rewards are fine, but both the altar downside is too much to handle when stack 2 or more altars, those numbers will not add up n be great for players at all, I seriously asking GGG to do an actual check on this.

I would prefer your end nerf the altar side effects by 50% rather than lowering the drop

So this is just another nerf instead of "buff" , why keep making drops harder for us?

Can GGG actually NERF things that has negative effects on us instead of buffing it to making it worse?

Think you may need to re-read the change as it should have the intended effect of attending to the issue that you've noted i.e. "both the altar downside is too much to handle when stack 2 or more altars". Not all altars spawning with increased effect = fewer stacked downside mechanics.

You're not reading it right, altars with additional upside will has it's downside effect to increased by 100% , are you missing this?

I've run with the atlas passive key which have an additional downside effect, and I'm telling you from my actual experience increasing the downside effect to 100% it's not gonna be a very great experience at all for many players.

Not to mention they have made the loot drops n altar mods even more complicated than before , let alone making even more difficult!

I am still feeling this is very similar to 3.18 start of shit show at the first week disaster. Just hope it will not be another 3.19.

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BNightwolf wrote:

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wegeling wrote:

"if you intuit that it may be a 20 pack map''

I like many things in this manifesto except this, gotta guess now

First thought on this statement: Players running through entire map counting pack spawns to determine which altar choice is the best. Exactly the gameplay GGG want to avoid.

Please include a map mod icon on the right to list if there is: Low/mid/high amount of influence packs. Or any other clear indication so that players do not have to play a negative playstyle.

My first thought wasn't even that generous. My first thought was "if it's random, this is straight-up encouraging degenerate gambling". The type of things you hear in Vegas.

"Oh man I can feel it, she's ready for the jackpot! I'm going all in!"

I don't know if GGG got a consultant straight from mobile games or what is happening. But that line is awful, and the thought process it represents more so.

As for the rest of the changes, the fact that they think altars were "too rewarding" despite the fact that to squeeze the rewards out you had to turn the ripiness to 11 just doesn't make any sense. I guess it's more indicative of the sad state of the rest of the game rewards.

And when it comes to bosses, I tested that. Extensively. The Eater of Worlds mobs are severely overtuned, so I wanted to know if full altars on bosses vs. 2-3 of altars on mobs (all with the keystones) would be comparably rewarding. With the notable exception of the Frenzied Rhoa (RIP), running full altars on map bosses was less dangerous, but the rewards were straight up trash in comparison. It needs a SIGNIFICANT boost, not a small adjustment.

Unless, of course, the rest of the loot nerf is severe enough that both mobs and bosses are straight trash too.

QOL 3:1 on the scarabs is good. The core drop pool says nothing because it'll 100% depend on drop rate. The rest of the nerfs severely undermine the "risk vs. rewards" mantra when they're ripping the rewards out of a potentially very risky mechanic. Frankly, this is a complete miss, and doesn't bode well for the upcoming curses nerf.

My problem with these nerfs is that it heavily reduces the amount of eldritch currency, especially grand tier, that will be available. Altars will still be alright loot wise, though it is kind of disappointing seeing this nerfed when so many other league mechanics were absolutely demolished lootwise last league for Archnemesis loot goblins. However, attaining eldritch ichors and embers outside of altar farming is extremely sparse, and now that this is no longer possible, I think there needs to be some consideration for how players attain this incredibly important currency. I do not know exactly what the solution should be to this issue. Adding the ability to upgrade 3:1 would be a start, but I don't think that alone would be enough to offset this nerf.

My biggest issue in this manifesto is the increasing rng in every aspect of the game, more specifically, vastly varying how many influenced packs will spawn in eldritch influenced maps. The idea that players will be able to intuit that few packs are going to spawn and so therefore should choose boss rewards is a bit ridiculous. By the time that might even be possible in many maps layouts, altars will likely have already been taken. I do not think this nerf is necessary on top of everything else, and will more likely just feel bad for the players than offer any interesting interaction. Please reconsider this change.

I respect that GGG has an idea in mind when making these changes, but, as players, we are often repeatedly hit with nerfs for potential changes that come down the road, and we don't know what is coming. It feels like there is this concept that something can never be buffed without something else being nerfed at the same time, and many times that buff comes leagues later, leaving something in a nerfed state bc of a reason that does not yet exist. If GGG needs to nerf things to make room, from a player perspective it would feel better if the nerf did not come in a before the buff such that players are left in a weakened state for an extended period of time.

Altars may have been too strong, but after all the nerfs in 3.19 to loot, nerfing what felt like the last remaining mapping mechanic that didn't require tons of investment does not feel good. There are still many loot concerns from 3.19 going into 3.20, and these altar nerfs leave me worried. The core problem for me is that it does not feel good to be forced to grind more for the exact same power. This does not make me want to play the game more, it makes me play it less.

That is not to say there was nothing good in this manifesto. While the altar nerfs to scarabs are sad because scarabs are so essential in the current version of the game, I think rusted scarabs being added to the general loot pool as well as being able to upgrade scarabs 3:1 are both good changes. The awakened gems is a bit of a mixed bag in my opinion. As many others have expressed, my gut instinct is that the more common awakened gems will become even more devalued, and the rare gems will still almost never drop so their price will be barely affected.

I genuinely hope GGG takes feedback on these manifestos. The stated aim was that these were posted early so feedback could be given, and while I know that the general idea of the manifesto will probably stay in place, I would hope that some feedback could be iterated on to smooth out some of the issues that these nerfs will have.

nice