⛵☁️[3.25] The Arachnophobia Allstars| Chaos Guardian CI|The dirty Scorpion-tail|Herald of Agony 150M+

Great, very detailed guide. I am using similar one, but based on Herald of Purity (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2554248). I'm not sure, but your build seems to have both more defence and more damage. Could you take a look and compare them?

I also have some questions about your build:
1. Why do we use Desecrate? What does it have to do with raising spiders?
2. How do I protect myself from Bleeding and Poison caused by The Golden Rule jewel? I assume I won't go below 100 poisons but what about bleeding? Constant using of anti-bleeding flask?
Last edited by Jack0o on Aug 11, 2021, 10:03:44 AM
I guess thats a BIS ring :D
/flex
Oh btw - in pob melee physical is linked to spiders - in guide you are saying melee splash or multistrike. whats correct?
Guys, can you tell me how many active auras you use? I use the discipline determination and the herald of agony. But for this I took 2 nods reservations of heralds and Discord Artisian.
"
Jack0o wrote:
Great, very detailed guide. I am using similar one, but based on Herald of Purity (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2554248). I'm not sure, but your build seems to have both more defence and more damage. Could you take a look and compare them?

I also have some questions about your build:
1. Why do we use Desecrate? What does it have to do with raising spiders?
2. How do I protect myself from Bleeding and Poison caused by The Golden Rule jewel? I assume I won't go below 100 poisons but what about bleeding? Constant using of anti-bleeding flask?


Hi JackOn,

thank you very much!
I played and loved HoP too very much, but did not liked the whirling of cyclone and some other limits. This build bases a lot on Vatinas great build! It's a very fine build and best written with great mechanics!

The allstars optimize clusters and grace and keystones to reach 2x or even 3x more ehp/ defences and double es/ block. It has some millions more damage, but mainly it maps faster with the ranged multiple piercing projectile-attack of Heraldof Agony.

Of course it has some downsides too, movement is not as smooth as when you like cyclone. On page 50 of the thread is a long chapter explaning the stats, written in 3.13, now the build has some optimized stuff like more free movement with stormbrands:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3019705/page/50

- HoA vs HoP -

Stats and styles of different
Heralds- and Managuardianbuilds


Spoiler

1) 70000 armour of Vatinas build of HoP against 140000 armour this HoA/ The Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars. This is important for some big physical hits. Here HoP don't have enough armour for big hits (see poewiki for armours dimishing returns. 140000 Ar of HoA is fitting much better with often 40% more physical damage reduction than only 70000 Ar).

2) 1400 against 2800 es/ block - HoA recovers faster and in damagepeaks much better

3) HoA is better scaleable for high damage with pure agony and virulences and 15 witherstacks, HoP offers only reduced cooldowns on medium clusters for their attacks.

4) HoP Sentinels dies often and must be raised again, it has also in melee range a lot of downtimes - HoA raised earlier with ranged attacks, and the crawler has much more area of damage with his long ranged projectiles also. You can scale up with 55-60 virulences easy against a small loss of added quality of life on one medium cluster or without double curses. Then the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars reach 3 mill. damage more as a typical HoP set-up. With cyclone you can move in small melee range, with spellecho of this Arachnophilia HoA build you have enough ball-lighnings everytime on the screen, but you have to stand 0.3 seconds to cast 2 of them. So cyclone is a bit smoother in movement.

5) HoA has with pierce support and helmet enchant much more, minimum around 4 times more total damage on mobs like in delve, blight, delirium, rituals or other high density areas. Count 4 x dps in mapping with it's tail projectilesattack (it is the HoA Standard attack with no cooldown) and pierce support and helmetenchant offers another 2x projectiles. HoP charge and slam attacks have cooldowns and only a small area of damage and no longe range. HoP offers no splash, only small melee area of damage and no pierce.

(For better comparing with equal defences of both builds count "hatred" in place of it's defensive "grace" for HoA in: 11-13 mill. total shaper- damage. HoP cannot obtain more auras because of not enough reduced manareservation. HoP must change gear, lower it's HoP-supports, change around 7 passives and use a different annoint to get more mana for another set-up. HoA has the possibility to switch in a second Circle of Nostalgia for more mana and dps and 8 up to 14 mill. damage shaper- singletarget damage and looses only frostwall for around 10.5 mill. damage or one Quality of life-skill and two passives (like raze and pillage or rotten claws) for around 12.9 mill. shaper-damage and 160 mill. mapping-damage.)

HoP is in single target around equal or around 10% increased damage, but only when The Arachnophobiacs are using their most defensive setup with 2-3 x more ehp than the HoP. The HoP movement is 60% slower and has less damageuptimes (first you have to reach melee the target with it cycloning). HoA can also change pierce if it is wanted for better singletarget, switch ring or support with hatred or freeding frenzy, but scaling more virulences stacks are recommended for raising damage in this build.

6) The weak spots like degens, aoe and not blockable hits are equal and are the same in both builds. HoA has in his setup an additional sulphurflask for the cooldowns of time of need and vaal discipline.
And of course don't forget numbers and factors of total damage taken, multiple mapmods, crits, etc. :

The more dodge, vaal grace, pantheon, evasion, phasing, overcapped resistances when you are debuffed and doublecurse (when you choose a defensive second one) of the allstars are not only a bit better than the very, very fine build of Vatinas, to reduce total damage taken:

For example you get often multiples damagetypes and sources, degen and hits or aoe at the same time of one boss or one mob and you have to count the total damage taken in these encounters and moments. And here the Agonyca Allstars are shining and charming hot with double and tripple ehp for all damage types.

7) I don't want forget two advantages of HoP in ehp and defence here at this comparing the tails and arms:

-the Sentinels can take damage as meat shield and can taunt. But only melee and they die fast in some encounters, maps and bosses and there are some disadvantages in playstyle as wrote before and in the build of the allstars spoiler "HoP". So for example HoP have also to deal with chained projectiles and so this advantage is in some other situations very dangerous.
When HoA takes Summon Phantasms-Support in the Allstars have 11 taunting and hindering and meatshielding Phantasms-minions too.

- you can move while cycloning. But as said before, for hard bosses the 2 possibilties of HoA's hybrid style: melee and ranged raising the Herald, is best to deal with high lvl 10x maven invitations, shaper, ueberatziri etc.) and with HoA you can easy switch to cyclone also. The Agonyca Allstars are able to stand outside high damage areas of bosses and stack the virulences ranged. Old HoP must cyclone melee in these damagepeaks.
When the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars take "storm brand" in they obtain almost the same freedom of movement and still don't need to to move into melee distance.

8) Fortify's 20% damagereduction of melee HoP is a minimum of 50% weaker compared against HoA divergent frost shield 30% dr and it's 60% dr against ranged attacks, and the added chill effect of frost shield results in -15 % attackspeed of melee mobs.
Combined with bodyguards/ knockback frostshield's 60% dr get very often op, and much better than fortify's 20% dr.
And also HoP has to attack and hit to trigger fortify, frostshield is triggered also ranged on stun and block and don't need to hit or attack.

9) Other managuardian builds get into problems when their molten shell, guardian skill or vaal discipline is in cooldown - the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars start then with their dodge and spelldodge of vaal grace and withering step for these cooldowns.

10) HoP is missing phasing, elusive, evasion, dodge, soul of solaris, vaal grace, overcapped resistances, double curses, movement speed and some more layers of defences and synergies of defences etc.

Overall

Total the Arachnophobia Allstars have double and tripple ehp against all damagetypes with their 17 walls of defences, and against physical damage quadruple ehp.

You have circa 4× more multipletarget damage and 3x more mappingspeed and 2x more substain / es on block. You loose around 5% singletarget but you can easy balance your damage up if you want to.


(see spoiler "Index of defences", see Path of Building for ehp)




1- Desecrate is to generate corpses, and with the flask writhing jar and it's worms you can kill to raise spiders. So you can also raise spiders in bossarenas or at start of a map.

In spoiler "blizzard - raise your spiders" are all tipps.

2- around level 70-80 you take the keystone chaos Inoculation to get immune against chaosdamage and poison. Before use not the golden rule or only very, very careful. Because you yourself don't inflict bleedings with spells (or only extreme low damage with skills) you don't reflect them to yourself.

But you need mandatory a anti-bleeding suffix on flasks against bleedings caused by enemies.



Last edited by Chromino on Aug 11, 2021, 11:43:36 AM
"
demji wrote:
Oh btw - in pob melee physical is linked to spiders - in guide you are saying melee splash or multistrike. whats correct?


I changed it to multistrike to buff better the 15 wither stacks with even more attackspeed in 3.15, before was physical damage against (better against bosses with high armour/ pdr). I will update this in the pob's soon.

Last edited by Chromino on Aug 11, 2021, 4:49:35 PM
"
demji wrote:
Can someone tell me, why i have so much mana free ? i am at 1639 free mana right now...

https://pastebin.com/HHvUeYxG


That is much too much unreserved mana, hehe. Limit your unreserved mana to 55-100.

Take out manareductions of a ring (like rare unset ring instead with high es and what you need and like or dex) or a different amulett-anoint like unnatural calm or only 1x uncompromising.

Sorry, mana was not to calculate correct in pob and bugged and then patched with less multipliers, so go with the spoiler "manamanager" to finetune mana.

Last edited by Chromino on Aug 11, 2021, 12:22:44 PM
"
DeusVlt wrote:
Guys, can you tell me how many active auras you use? I use the discipline determination and the herald of agony. But for this I took 2 nods reservations of heralds and Discord Artisian.


When you are fullgeared you have the ranked auras:

1- HoA
2- determination
3- discipline and vaal discipline
4- grace and vaal grace
5- clarity only for watcher's eye with clarity mod

when you have b.i.s.-geared free skillslots and enough mana you can take in:

6- vitality against dot's
7- precision for damage
8- defiance banner for defences or dread banner for damage
Last edited by Chromino on Aug 11, 2021, 12:59:06 PM
"
Chromino wrote:
"
DeusVlt wrote:
Guys, can you tell me how many active auras you use? I use the discipline determination and the herald of agony. But for this I took 2 nods reservations of heralds and Discord Artisian.


When you are fullgeared you have the ranked auras:

1- HoA
2- determination
3- discipline and vaal discipline
4- grace and vaal grace
5- clarity only for watcher's eye with clarity mod

when you have b.i.s.-geared free skillslots and enough mana you can take in:

6- vitality against dot's
7- precision for damage
8- defiance banner for defences or dread banner for damage


I look at your tree, and these nods are not taken from you . How to put everything without them?
my pob https://pastebin.com/MAKDqKkR
"
DeusVlt wrote:
"
Chromino wrote:
"
DeusVlt wrote:
Guys, can you tell me how many active auras you use? I use the discipline determination and the herald of agony. But for this I took 2 nods reservations of heralds and Discord Artisian.


When you are fullgeared you have the ranked auras:

1- HoA
2- determination
3- discipline and vaal discipline
4- grace and vaal grace
5- clarity only for watcher's eye with clarity mod

when you have b.i.s.-geared free skillslots and enough mana you can take in:

6- vitality against dot's
7- precision for damage
8- defiance banner for defences or dread banner for damage


I look at your tree, and these nods are not taken from you . How to put everything without them?
my pob https://pastebin.com/MAKDqKkR


1-5 is from my tree and the build and no problem to use.

6-8 are variations for bis-gear. You can take the unset ring also into the offensive edition and get enough mana to vary with the helmet-enchant, the skillslots are the bigger problem.
When you have bis gear you can take one more aura (or skill). When you use only one movementskill, and not 2 like I do in the moment, you can use 2 more auras if you prefer and optimize mana. When you have b.i.s. clusters or a hungry loop you can vary too at some slots.

I use in the moment 1-6 and phase run as second movement skill for speedbossing with level 100 and have too much mana.

In your set-up you need first 2x "uncompromising" on 2 small clusters, see "manamanager" and page 50 in section "clusters manamanagement", 1-10 chaos each. Then you can use all auras 1-5 and regret discord artisan.
Ingame mana and the mana calculated by pob are often not equal in these weeks, so perhaps you have to take some small mana-finetunes.

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Expedition/9dmJGjzuK
Last edited by Chromino on Aug 11, 2021, 7:22:16 PM

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