[3.13]🏹 Poison Barrage-VF / Scourge Arrow / TR PF | Bottled Fortify | The Tankiest Ranger + High DPS

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WolfieNa wrote:

The use of a large-ring Thread of Hope that enables King of the Hill and ignores many attack speed nodes is non-optimal for two reasons. First, Scourge Arrow build prioritizes attack speed, not crit multi/chance. High APS (attack per sec) helps you channel faster, i.e. more actual DPS and less chance to get hit (better survivability), regardless you are just one-tap in mapping or 5-stage your SA against bosses. In fact, PoB assumes you shoot arrow all the time which may give you a false impression that you deal more DPS with King of the Hill allocated at the expense of the APS nodes. But in reality, you don't because you don't generate SA as many as those who have those APS nodes allocated, thus less actual DPS (and you crit much less with less APS). Understand the way PoB works, use it properly, and don't just take a look at the DPS as your sole compass.

PoB gives a "combined DPS" number which DOES account for attack speed. The "poison damage" and "poison DPS" numbers do not account for attack speed. Of course the mobility aspect of higher attack speed is something PoB can't tell you about.

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In addition, the low APS seems to contribute to the decision a few have taken in picking Nature's Adrenaline over Master Alchemist.

Not using Master Alchemist is non-optimal. While I understand it is a personal choice, I just want to reiterate the reasoning behind using M.A. in our build. M.A. gives us chance to ignite with Blast Rain, which activates the Cinderswallow flame. It's 10% more DPS with Cinderswallow flame (~13% with our increased flask effect setup). This DPS boost and the obvious ele ailment immunity make M.A. an invaluable choice for our build. Furthermore, having Master Alchemist frees up the need for many flask suffixes such as shock/ignite/freeze/chill immunity, consequentially allows you to craft offensive suffix such as increased APS or have offensive flasks.

All in all, grab as many APS nodes and allocate Master Alchemist instead of Nature's Adrenaline. Hope it helps.

Cheers

Ailment immunity is amazing, which is why I'm doing master alchemist myself, but you don't need the chance to ignite. You've got ~30% chance to crit with coralito + king of the hill, so you've got 30% chance to ignite. The bosses will be ignited.

The thread of hope is fine though. I've tried with and without it, 12% increased attack speed from 4 small nodes is not a great use of points.

edit: a side note on this:

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It's 10% more DPS with Cinderswallow flame (~13% with our increased flask effect setup).

Cinderswallow effect is an increased damage taken mod, it is similar to more mods in the sense that it isn't in the same additive pool as most of your character's increased damage. But it IS in the same additive pool as wither and touch of cruelty. As a result it is about 6.4% more damage for us, compared to a regular silver flask.

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Profatum wrote:

You should have said it earlier, so people like me wouldn't build wrong.

What I have said has been clearly written in the OP. It seem to me that you didn't check the PoB or may be you are doing another SA build. The PoB in the OP clearly shows what I said.

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However we still can do ignite without master alchemist, 100% chance on crit what's wrong here? Currently sitting 10 APS is that low?

100% crit chance for a SA build. Are you sure about that?

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WolfieNa wrote:

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Profatum wrote:

You should have said it earlier, so people like me wouldn't build wrong.

What I have said has been clearly written in the OP. It seem to me that you didn't check the PoB or may be you are doing another SA build. The PoB in the OP clearly shows what I said.

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However we still can do ignite without master alchemist, 100% chance on crit what's wrong here? Currently sitting 10 APS is that low?

100% crit chance for a SA build. Are you sure about that?

You don't need 100% chance to crit. I said 100% ON crit which is the game mechanic. Just crit once 2 seconds. I have 22% without any investment. Which is more than enough for 8 attacks from blast rain every 0.2 second.

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magicrectangle wrote:

PoB gives a "combined DPS" number which DOES account for attack speed. The "poison damage" and "poison DPS" numbers do not account for attack speed. Of course the mobility aspect of higher attack speed is something PoB can't tell you about.

The total Damage inc. poison is what we should look at.
This total damage inc. DPS is a function of attack speed, base poison damage, poison duration, and other modifiers. Higher APS means one can apply more poison stacks within a given duration of time (usually fixed). As a result, higher APS increases the average poison DPS by a lot.

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The thread of hope is fine though. I've tried with and without it, 12% increased attack speed from 4 small nodes is not a great use of points.

Talking about inefficiency of APS from these small nodes, you seem to forget to mention the opportunity cost of a thread of hope (travel cost + minus resist cost) for the crit node being taken. :)

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edit: a side note on this:

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It's 10% more DPS with Cinderswallow flame (~13% with our increased flask effect setup).

Cinderswallow effect is an increased damage taken mod, it is similar to more mods in the sense that it isn't in the same additive pool as most of your character's increased damage. But it IS in the same additive pool as wither and touch of cruelty. As a result it is about 6.4% more damage for us, compared to a regular silver flask.

Thanks for the correction. I should have said that it was increased damage taken, which is additive to other similar mods and belongs to the effective DPS modifier, rather than more DPS.

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WolfieNa wrote:

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magicrectangle wrote:

PoB gives a "combined DPS" number which DOES account for attack speed. The "poison damage" and "poison DPS" numbers do not account for attack speed. Of course the mobility aspect of higher attack speed is something PoB can't tell you about.

The total Damage inc. poison is what we should look at.
This total damage inc. DPS is a function of attack speed, base poison damage, poison duration, and other modifiers. Higher APS means one can apply more poison stacks within a given duration of time (usually fixed). As a result, higher APS increases the average poison DPS by a lot.

That may be a difference between the community fork and regular PoB. In the community fork the stat given is combined DPS. In any case, attack speed is being counted. But it does assume you always hit 5 stacks, so if you hit 5 stacks more frequently in real play with higher attack speed, that wouldn't be taken into account.

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The thread of hope is fine though. I've tried with and without it, 12% increased attack speed from 4 small nodes is not a great use of points.

Talking about inefficiency of APS from these small nodes, you seem to forget to mention the opportunity cost of a thread of hope (travel cost + minus resist cost) for the crit node being taken. :)

King of the hill is not the reason you take that thread of hope. You get king of the hill because you can, but poisonous fangs and adder's touch are both better damage nodes than king of the hill which you gain access to with that thread of hope. Aspect of the eagle is also pretty nice, not as amazing for damage but 4% move speed.

I'd encourage you to try it out in PoB at least, but it is true that the opportunity cost is high, particularly if the resists cause you to need to change other gear. Now that I have access to really GG yellow jewels I'm considering switching out of it for something like this:



It is a slight damage loss for me, and the resists don't matter with my current gear, but I'd gain 7% life, and as you say higher attack speed improves mobility.

I have to say I agree with Wolfie about Master Alchemist. Master Alchemist is what allows you to get by with 3-4 unique flasks and a flask of warding. It makes PF very resilient and tanky.

About Thread of Hope, it is only to stack dot multi. The results are very apparent. Once we are talking lvl 97+, each point is very precious. If you go for dot multi nodes, you give up attack speed, evasion, life, flask nodes. Like anything else in PoE, it is a trade off.

Looks like I'll be trying this one out in trade rather than SSF Harvest, because I'm not sure how much time I'll get over the remaining two months and my league starter needs some help with a few bosses.

I'm liking it so far. DPS needs a lot of work but that's expected when I have no gear yet. It's still clearing early red maps at level 74 though, so I can't complain about that.

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magicrectangle wrote:

I'd encourage you to try it out in PoB at least

I actually tried it out when I consolidated the end-game PoB for Harvest league. But I didn't think the large ring Thread of hope is worth it. I did make another tree using a different thread of hope targeting different notables. If you take a look at the end-game PoB, there are couple of variants inside, and one of them is using a thread of hope.

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but it is true that the opportunity cost is high, particularly if the resists cause you to need to change other gear. Now that I have access to really GG yellow jewels I'm considering switching out of it for something like this:

It is a slight damage loss for me, and the resists don't matter with my current gear, but I'd gain 7% life, and as you say higher attack speed improves mobility.

Yeah, once you have those end-game jewels, they are totally worth your points. I used 3 or 4 of these in Delirium league. Harvest league makes crafting those jewels a bit easier.

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Looks like I'll be trying this one out in trade rather than SSF Harvest, because I'm not sure how much time I'll get over the remaining two months and my league starter needs some help with a few bosses.

I'm liking it so far. DPS needs a lot of work but that's expected when I have no gear yet. It's still clearing early red maps at level 74 though, so I can't complain about that.

Good luck. Feel free to contact any of us here in this thread or in game.

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Life gives lemon. Let's make lemon juice

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This is for those who have got bad luck with the rolls but still want to get the most out of the situation.

So, I tried to make our B.I.S boots. The method:

• Have a pair two-toned boots with Warlord base.
• Alt-spam until get +1 max endurance charge (prefix), which took me ~200 alt. Alternatively, you can buy the base with this mod right off the bat if you don't like the spamming nuisance.
• Get Hunter boots with a T1 inflicted poison deal damage faster (suffix).
• Awaken slam. Below is the result:

Yeah. I get 3 suffixes, 2 of them were trash and have no mod tag. The chance that I can remove both of those mods are not high.

So, instead of throwing away these boots, I changed my plan which would forfeit the 'poisons deal damage faster' mod and go for phys reduction instead.

Here's the end result:

How I made these boots:

• Remove suffixes by Harvest reforge keeping prefix (+1 max endurance charge) until getting 2 removable mods on the suffix. I ended up with 2 resist mods, one of them got removed after this.
• Replace the remaining resist (T3) and augment resist to have the T1 resist.
• Harvest augment crit to roll Tailwind.
• Block prefix and augment phys to roll 2-4% Physical damage reduction (only 1 tier).
• Augment life, replace life by life, etc. few times until hitting a good life roll.
• Bench-craft movement speed. If you really want T1 MS, you can harvest craft it with a cost.

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Hope it is helpful. If life gives lemon, let's make lemon juice.

Credit: I had tried to roll T1 life few times without success until Bahamut called me over. His Midas-touch bestows the boots with a T1 life roll. :D