[3.15]Archmage Ball Lightning Hierophant, will it work in Expedition?

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SkylerOG wrote:

I'd like to make a suggestion/recommendation for a slight change to this build.

Replace Elemental Focus with Unleash. And this is why...

Using the OP top tier PoB, the current average Sirus hit is 1.45M and shoots 4 BL's per cast/set.

Each ball can hit 13x during their duration (1s/150ms = 6.67 * 2s duration = 13.3 hits max per ball).

The OP says max hits possible is 20, but this is not correct. BL's duration is not 3s, it's only 2s. (See here: https://youtu.be/XE3Pq1AcDKU)

That equates to ((4 * 13)*1.45M) = 75.4M damage per cast/set of 4 BL's, or 37.7M DPS (also requires at least 33 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

But with this build, it's really easier to just calculate damage per cast/set rather than per second.

HOWEVER......

If you swap out Awakened Elemental Focus for just a 20/20 Unleash, and then set shock effectiveness to ~5 (which is probably low-balling it) since BL can now do ailments after dropping EF, the average hit drops to ~1.03M (down from the previous 1.45M).

But now, you're shooting 7 BL's per cast/set instead of only 4 (as long as 3 seals are up).

Which equates to ((7 * 13)* 1.03M) = 93.7M damage per cast/set of 7 BL's, or 46.9 DPS (Requires at least 35 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

AND.....

It appears that Thunderous Salvos (+1 max seals/+30% crit chance) is moving into the passive tree in 3.11, which means we'll likely be able to access it without having to use an anointment. Which means you can keep Whispers of Doom anointment.

AND.....

You can also try and get a helmet with the +1 seal affix on it, too. This means after 3.11 comes out, this build with Unleash can shoot 9 BL's (1 normal + 2 greater spell echo + 1 spell echo + 5 unleash).

This equates to ((9 * 13)* 1.03M = 120.5M damage per cast/set of 9 BL's, or ~60M DPS (Requires at least 36 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

Now the big caveat for this to work properly so 9 BL's actually get cast, is you need 5 unleash seals stored up. Well, you also need at least 36 AoE radius and 20/20 slower projectiles, but those are a given already with Sanctuary of Thought + Illuminated Devotion + Greater Spell Echo (that's +175% AoE).

5 seals at .71 seconds per gain means you need to wait about 3.5s per cast. If you stand there stationary and just hold down BL, you'll get something like 9 BL's, then 4 BL's, then 5 BL's, then 4, then 5, then 4, then 5... and so on. Because we can cast so quickly, you only gain 1 seal about every other cast if you just stand there holding BL down. If you get a level 5 Awakened Unleash, you can hold BL down and get about 5 per cast every cast. And of course, you can get 5 seals gained a bit quicker than the 20/20 version.

So yes, in that scenario, you might come out with less overall DPS than if you simply had Elemental Focus in there instead of Unleash. But how often can you just stand in one spot stationary and shotgun down bosses without moving?

Let's break it down and see if there's even a difference between 5 casts/sets...

(((4 * 13) * 1.45M) * 5) = 377M damage

(((9 * 13) * 1.03M) = 120.5M + ((4 * 13) * 1.03M) = 53.6M + ((5 * 13) * 1.03M) = 67M + ((4 * 13) * 1.03M) = 53.6M + ((5 * 13) * 1.03M) = 67M) = 361.7M

So about a -15M difference if you stand stationary for 10 seconds holding down BL.

I don't ever see that happening, though. I'm ALWAYS casting once or twice, then moving for a bit, then casting again. If I stand in one spot for 4+ seconds, I'm typically scrambling to heal up. So for me, personally, I like the burst capability with Unleash. Cast once, move for 2-3 seconds, cast again, move for 2-3 seconds... and so on. And the DPS is significantly more with Unleash if that's how it's played.

Just sayin....


Now of course this could all change if they nerf Archmage gem and/or Fevered Mind jewels with 3.11, which is quite possible. Maybe even likely. But it's not like they're going to ruin the build if it goes from 60M DPS down to 50M DPS.

Anyway, good luck everyone. Hope this helped some folks.

"

SkylerOG wrote:

I'd like to make a suggestion/recommendation for a slight change to this build.

Replace Elemental Focus with Unleash. And this is why...

Using the OP top tier PoB, the current average Sirus hit is 1.45M and shoots 4 BL's per cast/set.

Each ball can hit 13x during their duration (1s/150ms = 6.67 * 2s duration = 13.3 hits max per ball).

The OP says max hits possible is 20, but this is not correct. BL's duration is not 3s, it's only 2s. (See here: https://youtu.be/XE3Pq1AcDKU)

That equates to ((4 * 13)*1.45M) = 75.4M damage per cast/set of 4 BL's, or 37.7M DPS (also requires at least 33 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

But with this build, it's really easier to just calculate damage per cast/set rather than per second.

HOWEVER......

If you swap out Awakened Elemental Focus for just a 20/20 Unleash, and then set shock effectiveness to ~5 (which is probably low-balling it) since BL can now do ailments after dropping EF, the average hit drops to ~1.03M (down from the previous 1.45M).

But now, you're shooting 7 BL's per cast/set instead of only 4 (as long as 3 seals are up).

Which equates to ((7 * 13)* 1.03M) = 93.7M damage per cast/set of 7 BL's, or 46.9 DPS (Requires at least 35 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

AND.....

It appears that Thunderous Salvos (+1 max seals/+30% crit chance) is moving into the passive tree in 3.11, which means we'll likely be able to access it without having to use an anointment. Which means you can keep Whispers of Doom anointment.

AND.....

You can also try and get a helmet with the +1 seal affix on it, too. This means after 3.11 comes out, this build with Unleash can shoot 9 BL's (1 normal + 2 greater spell echo + 1 spell echo + 5 unleash).

This equates to ((9 * 13)* 1.03M = 120.5M damage per cast/set of 9 BL's, or ~60M DPS (Requires at least 36 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

Now the big caveat for this to work properly so 9 BL's actually get cast, is you need 5 unleash seals stored up. Well, you also need at least 36 AoE radius and 20/20 slower projectiles, but those are a given already with Sanctuary of Thought + Illuminated Devotion + Greater Spell Echo (that's +175% AoE).

5 seals at .71 seconds per gain means you need to wait about 3.5s per cast. If you stand there stationary and just hold down BL, you'll get something like 9 BL's, then 4 BL's, then 5 BL's, then 4, then 5, then 4, then 5... and so on. Because we can cast so quickly, you only gain 1 seal about every other cast if you just stand there holding BL down. If you get a level 5 Awakened Unleash, you can hold BL down and get about 5 per cast every cast. And of course, you can get 5 seals gained a bit quicker than the 20/20 version.

So yes, in that scenario, you might come out with less overall DPS than if you simply had Elemental Focus in there instead of Unleash. But how often can you just stand in one spot stationary and shotgun down bosses without moving?

Let's break it down and see if there's even a difference between 5 casts/sets...

(((4 * 13) * 1.45M) * 5) = 377M damage

(((9 * 13) * 1.03M) = 120.5M + ((4 * 13) * 1.03M) = 53.6M + ((5 * 13) * 1.03M) = 67M + ((4 * 13) * 1.03M) = 53.6M + ((5 * 13) * 1.03M) = 67M) = 361.7M

So about a -15M difference if you stand stationary for 10 seconds holding down BL.

I don't ever see that happening, though. I'm ALWAYS casting once or twice, then moving for a bit, then casting again. If I stand in one spot for 4+ seconds, I'm typically scrambling to heal up. So for me, personally, I like the burst capability with Unleash. Cast once, move for 2-3 seconds, cast again, move for 2-3 seconds... and so on. And the DPS is significantly more with Unleash if that's how it's played.

Just sayin....


Now of course this could all change if they nerf Archmage gem and/or Fevered Mind jewels with 3.11, which is quite possible. Maybe even likely. But it's not like they're going to ruin the build if it goes from 60M DPS down to 50M DPS.

Anyway, good luck everyone. Hope this helped some folks.

"

SkylerOG wrote:

I'd like to make a suggestion/recommendation for a slight change to this build.

Replace Elemental Focus with Unleash. And this is why...

Using the OP top tier PoB, the current average Sirus hit is 1.45M and shoots 4 BL's per cast/set.

Each ball can hit 13x during their duration (1s/150ms = 6.67 * 2s duration = 13.3 hits max per ball).

The OP says max hits possible is 20, but this is not correct. BL's duration is not 3s, it's only 2s. (See here: https://youtu.be/XE3Pq1AcDKU)

That equates to ((4 * 13)*1.45M) = 75.4M damage per cast/set of 4 BL's, or 37.7M DPS (also requires at least 33 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

But with this build, it's really easier to just calculate damage per cast/set rather than per second.

HOWEVER......

If you swap out Awakened Elemental Focus for just a 20/20 Unleash, and then set shock effectiveness to ~5 (which is probably low-balling it) since BL can now do ailments after dropping EF, the average hit drops to ~1.03M (down from the previous 1.45M).



But now, you're shooting 7 BL's per cast/set instead of only 4 (as long as 3 seals are up).

Which equates to ((7 * 13)* 1.03M) = 93.7M damage per cast/set of 7 BL's, or 46.9 DPS (Requires at least 35 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

AND.....

It appears that Thunderous Salvos (+1 max seals/+30% crit chance) is moving into the passive tree in 3.11, which means we'll likely be able to access it without having to use an anointment. Which means you can keep Whispers of Doom anointment.

AND.....

You can also try and get a helmet with the +1 seal affix on it, too. This means after 3.11 comes out, this build with Unleash can shoot 9 BL's (1 normal + 2 greater spell echo + 1 spell echo + 5 unleash).

This equates to ((9 * 13)* 1.03M = 120.5M damage per cast/set of 9 BL's, or ~60M DPS (Requires at least 36 AoE radius + 20/20 slower projectiles).

Now the big caveat for this to work properly so 9 BL's actually get cast, is you need 5 unleash seals stored up. Well, you also need at least 36 AoE radius and 20/20 slower projectiles, but those are a given already with Sanctuary of Thought + Illuminated Devotion + Greater Spell Echo (that's +175% AoE).

5 seals at .71 seconds per gain means you need to wait about 3.5s per cast. If you stand there stationary and just hold down BL, you'll get something like 9 BL's, then 4 BL's, then 5 BL's, then 4, then 5, then 4, then 5... and so on. Because we can cast so quickly, you only gain 1 seal about every other cast if you just stand there holding BL down. If you get a level 5 Awakened Unleash, you can hold BL down and get about 5 per cast every cast. And of course, you can get 5 seals gained a bit quicker than the 20/20 version.

So yes, in that scenario, you might come out with less overall DPS than if you simply had Elemental Focus in there instead of Unleash. But how often can you just stand in one spot stationary and shotgun down bosses without moving?

Let's break it down and see if there's even a difference between 5 casts/sets...

(((4 * 13) * 1.45M) * 5) = 377M damage

(((9 * 13) * 1.03M) = 120.5M + ((4 * 13) * 1.03M) = 53.6M + ((5 * 13) * 1.03M) = 67M + ((4 * 13) * 1.03M) = 53.6M + ((5 * 13) * 1.03M) = 67M) = 361.7M

So about a -15M difference if you stand stationary for 10 seconds holding down BL.

I don't ever see that happening, though. I'm ALWAYS casting once or twice, then moving for a bit, then casting again. If I stand in one spot for 4+ seconds, I'm typically scrambling to heal up. So for me, personally, I like the burst capability with Unleash. Cast once, move for 2-3 seconds, cast again, move for 2-3 seconds... and so on. And the DPS is significantly more with Unleash if that's how it's played.

Just sayin....


Now of course this could all change if they nerf Archmage gem and/or Fevered Mind jewels with 3.11, which is quite possible. Maybe even likely. But it's not like they're going to ruin the build if it goes from 60M DPS down to 50M DPS.

Anyway, good luck everyone. Hope this helped some folks.

"

vladimars wrote:

so, fevered mind jewels are kinda crap now. best case i could find is one jewel gives 30% increased mana cost, but costs you a jewel socket and 3 notables along with travel nodes.

should we drop sanctuary of thought? or is the increased aoe enough to compensate for the 50% less mana cost?

I guess indigon could be used, would suck to lose the helmet but it's the only way i can think of getting mana costs high enough. The non instant mana regen being counted as life as well is a nice touch too. looks like you would struggle to cast abilites more than once or twice within 4 seconds though. I guess that wouldn't work would it? Maybe with unleash? casting a spell every 2 to 3 seconds would keep up a large mana cost, but usable, and the unleash might help.

Feel like this build was hit so many times, the ball lightning buff is decent, can a non archmage ball lightning build do significant damage like this one?

"

Pl0x3r_2605 wrote:

actually from what I have tested, since an instance of casted ball lightning can only damage the same target every 150ms no matter how many projectiles, it doesn't gain any dps from the additional projectiles you see from unleash. When unleash is triggered, the additional projectiles do not count as additional casts, therfore do not do any damage by ball lightning's own set of rules.

"

Aniki_Leads_people wrote:

I think the duration is 3 sec. Check my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9J717u7lsQ&feature=youtu.be, at around 49s. I played at 0.25x speed and started counting when my mana dropped. The time for the first ball to vanish was 11.7s. Considering my reacting time, I think 3 seconds is a reasonable duration.

"

vladimars wrote:

so, fevered mind jewels are kinda crap now. best case i could find is one jewel gives 30% increased mana cost, but costs you a jewel socket and 3 notables along with travel nodes.

should we drop sanctuary of thought? or is the increased aoe enough to compensate for the 50% less mana cost?

I guess indigon could be used, would suck to lose the helmet but it's the only way i can think of getting mana costs high enough. The non instant mana regen being counted as life as well is a nice touch too. looks like you would struggle to cast abilites more than once or twice within 4 seconds though. I guess that wouldn't work would it? Maybe with unleash? casting a spell every 2 to 3 seconds would keep up a large mana cost, but usable, and the unleash might help.

Feel like this build was hit so many times, the ball lightning buff is decent, can a non archmage ball lightning build do significant damage like this one?