[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

Because "raise spiders" is a spell would we benefit from the node "Arcane Swiftness"?
I would answer myself by using POB but i am totally hopeless with that tool.

I feel like i'm doing low damage in T16 Maps/Conquerers


Character Name: SlowOldFarmerMan
https://pastebin.com/Fcfy4G4D


Remaining Upgrades Still:

*Primary gems 20/20 (and empower level 3)
*Better Abyss Jewels in belt
*2nd Circle of Guilt with Sentinel of Purity inc. damage

Can't think of anything else that will boost my damage besides divining up some items for higher mod values.

"

Just look at the differences between my PoB and yours. The FAQ also has a section about mana reserved.

but in your PoB it also show -3% manna, that's the problem... but anyway i tried HoA version. Now i'm gonna switch to HoP so i hope manna problem would gone

btw, what about "Imbalanced Guard" node? isn't it ridiculously powerfull by doubling our armour?

"

scorflex wrote:

Thx for the update ! For the gloves, despair on hit is still viable ? Don't have the currencies to change for vulnerability on hit ahah. Nice job for the guide btw, thx for getting updated

Yep, Despair is still viable, you'll just need to keep Chance to Bleed instead of Maim on your Cyclone. :) Try to upgrade to Vulnerability when you can afford it though, since the free chance to bleed allows you to use Maim yourself for a nice damage boost.

"

o0DarkSword0o wrote:

Tbh i want to play your build :) and trying to help a little my friends with the LL version, i know there is plenty of builds of pure tankyness but i dont want that so, can you help me with the links

I'm thinking this idk if you have a better option

cyclone-culling-chance to bleed-fortify in gloves
tempest shield-cwdt-desecrate in shield
vaal molten shell-increased duration-vaal discipline-spririt offering in boots
blood magic-determination in helmet
HoP-deathmark-maim-bloodlust-ruthless-empower
dearhmark-withering touch-MPD in weapon

If you're sure you want to play this one, sure. :) You can still use Shav's as chest, which should allow you to either drop the reduced HoP mana reservation on rings and/or use bigger damage gems like Multistrike on them.

As for your links, here's what I would change:

* If you have Vunerability on hit on your gloves, you don't need Chance to Bleed on your Cyclone, and you can replace it with Maim.

* If you use a jewel with chance to block if you were damaged by a hit recently, you don't need Tempest Shield. Check my PoB or the FAQ to see all the sources of spell block, they should all apply to your case as well.

* Drop Vaal Molten Shell, and keep a regular Molten Shell. Having two vaal skills means they are twice as slow to charge up when you enter a map or a boss fight, and Vaal MS is just bad for tanking now, much worse than regular MS.

If you have trouble figuring out something, feel free to tell me, and I'll give you a hand.

"

GingerBeast wrote:

Ok,build is great, but time for the hard question:

In the paint image on the first page, why are the sentinels holding dicks?

I hoped we wouldn't come to this. But a part of me, deep inside my soul, always knew this day would come.

We have to face the harsh truth... I can't draw for shit.

"

EDMOSES wrote:

Because "raise spiders" is a spell would we benefit from the node "Arcane Swiftness"?
I would answer myself by using POB but i am totally hopeless with that tool.

Nope. :) Only minion modifiers applies to spiders, spell modifiers don't.

If that can help you a bit: the tags of a skill are useful to get an idea of what support gems / nodes apply to it, but it's not always that simple. For instance, Raise Zombie has the tag "spell", and as a result can be supported by Arcane Surge, which applies to *you* when you can the skill (giving you the Arcane Surge buff when you spend enough mana to summon the Zombies). But the Zombies' attacks have different tags, including the "attack" and "melee" tags, but not the "spell" tag, which means that the Zombies themselves will not benefit from Arcane Surge, but will benefit from Melee Physical Damage.

Those "secondary" tags are not displayed on the skills, unfortunately, and I don't know of a way to get them other than going on poedb, or guessing them from PoB (melee phys gives damage to my spiders in PoB, so I'm guessing their attacks have the "melee" and "attack" tags).

Hope that can help. :)

"

RazorGnome wrote:

I feel like i'm doing low damage in T16 Maps/Conquerers


Character Name: SlowOldFarmerMan
https://pastebin.com/Fcfy4G4D


Remaining Upgrades Still:

*Primary gems 20/20 (and empower level 3)
*Better Abyss Jewels in belt
*2nd Circle of Guilt with Sentinel of Purity inc. damage

Can't think of anything else that will boost my damage besides divining up some items for higher mod values.

The first and most urgent upgrade you should be looking for is a medium cluster jewel with the notables I listed in the guide. Those are insane for damage output.

You should also buy a level 3 empower. Even if it's corrupted, it will increase your damage significantly before you can get your own level 3 or 4.

Remember to switch out Melee Splash on your spiders for bosses.

Try to look for Vulnerability on hit gloves; on top of being a huge damage boost in itself, it also allows you to use Maim on your Cyclone instead of Chance to Bleed. Check the updated guide for more info.

"

kuskin wrote:

but in your PoB it also show -3% manna, that's the problem... but anyway i tried HoA version. Now i'm gonna switch to HoP so i hope manna problem would gone

btw, what about "Imbalanced Guard" node? isn't it ridiculously powerfull by doubling our armour?

I don't think my PoB has negative unreserved mana. I'm going to check again after posting this, but I'm pretty sure I don't. It could be that I'm using the community fork of PoB, but I can't think of any difference between the regular PoB and the fork that would change the mana reserved. Can you send me your PoB (in PM if you prefer)?

As for Imbalanced Guard, it's a big no unfortunately, because of the second line: "Maximum damage reduction is 50%", which means that we couldn't get above 50% phys damage reduction. The way I see it, this keystone is meant for people who want some phys damage reduction, but don't invest in armour, so would be around 20-30% reduction without the keystone, in order to reach an effective 50-ish%.

"

Vatinas wrote:

If you're sure you want to play this one, sure. :) You can still use Shav's as chest, which should allow you to either drop the reduced HoP mana reservation on rings and/or use bigger damage gems like Multistrike on them.

As for your links, here's what I would change:

* If you have Vunerability on hit on your gloves, you don't need Chance to Bleed on your Cyclone, and you can replace it with Maim.

* If you use a jewel with chance to block if you were damaged by a hit recently, you don't need Tempest Shield. Check my PoB or the FAQ to see all the sources of spell block, they should all apply to your case as well.

* Drop Vaal Molten Shell, and keep a regular Molten Shell. Having two vaal skills means they are twice as slow to charge up when you enter a map or a boss fight, and Vaal MS is just bad for tanking now, much worse than regular MS.

If you have trouble figuring out something, feel free to tell me, and I'll give you a hand.

Tyvm for take your time to help me :) i'll ask you if i have a trouble in something

"

o0DarkSword0o wrote:

Tyvm for take your time to help me :) i'll ask you if i have a trouble in something

Please do! :) Here or in PMs, whatever's the best for you. Have fun!

I've got a question for you.
How critical is Deathmark support to the whole show?
Can I replace deathmark in the spider setup with minion damage, and deathmark in the HoP support with something else for damage? And if yes, what could I put into the HoP setup?

Reason being, I don't like to press a whole lot of buttons, and deathmark seems like it will work at half strength if I don't cast it.

Or is there a specific reason to run deathmark? Do i want to cast it on a boss, and the minions will stick to him and will not run back to me as easily while I'm dodging mechanics?
How do they act differently compared to just attacking the boss from carrion golem's frenzy?

1. the new gem for spiders you've added in PoB (Awakened Melee Physical Damage) - is it use instead "damage on full life" gem in boss setup?

2. by using "Stalwart Commander" i loose a shit tons of ES and it's really painfull to me at this point (i didn't get how you reach over 7k ES, maybe Wather's Eye magic, but i still cant afford the "eye"). So, does it mean i have to continue to use "will shaper" cluster jewel?

3. you can enchant your rings with "Fertile Catalyst" (which gives life and mana modifiers) and it affords you to NOT pick all the 3 nodes right below CI

For Deathmark support, it's really handy if you need to re-summon your spiders mid-fight. It keeps your sentinels / few remaining spiders locked onto a target for 8 seconds so you can back up and use the flasks. Being able to direct all your minions to 1 target is really useful, and it only being half effictive most of the time won't hugely matter as you'll have plenty of damage.

For Stalwart Commander the 30% increased discipline should be what counters the majority of energy shield loss, I end up losing about 150 to gain 6k armour. I went with a + 6% energy shield base on the small jewel, can see Vatinas is running +armour base. Either should work, but the passive can also be got on a +evasion base which should be avoided as that'll lose you an extra 100 ES.

If lacking energy shield on a cheaper budget (I'm still on cheaper gear), I run a 5L herald to save mana, which meant I could get a ring with +20% to discipline aura as an implicit and not gone to +21% herald mana reduction yet.

With maim on cyclone, I assume that one will overwrite the maim from the spiders (due to Vulnerability)? I know they won't stack, but if it doesn't overwrite does that lower the usefullness of it on the cyclone link?

"

For Stalwart Commander the 30% increased discipline should be what counters the majority of energy shield loss, I end up losing about 150 to gain 6k armour. I went with a + 6% energy shield base on the small jewel, can see Vatinas is running +armour base. Either should work, but the passive can also be got on a +evasion base which should be avoided as that'll lose you an extra 100 ES.

exactly same shit ... still dunno how author get 7k+ ES with Stalwart Commander