[3.9] Cyclone Summoner - Heralds of Agony and Purity, Summon Holy Relic - League starter

"

luciferus wrote:

you guys are always forgeting one thing when i read posts. This builds damage is minions and not you and your poison stacks. Mainly u need atack speed to stack virulense asap. As u have atack speed for that, more attack speed gives nothing. And dont write about heal, im facetanking everthying, except shaper beam with my current gear (which is a budget one) For uber elder u can use Aul's uprising with purity of ice combined with watcher's eye jewel with freeze imunity(i place purity of ice in other ring with +3 socket life and resists) Ez uber elder farm
purity of ice aul is like 1ex watcher eye freeze imunity is cheap
All other map mods include guardians on any mode i run with bisco's collar and ventors gamble

Shaper and Uber Elder do indeed not require much investment with this build. When it comes to deep delves and delve bosses, you want as much max life, lgoh and attack speed as you can possibly get. I am at 9374 life and 1276 ES, 203 lgoh and 30 ESgoh, 7.12 aps with cyclone without flasks or focus. And I would still prefer to have even more of all this. Scaling defenses is much more important than offenses at some point, and atkspeed is a crucial part of our defense.

"

KäptnSharky wrote:

Shaper and Uber Elder do indeed not require much investment with this build. When it comes to deep delves and delve bosses, you want as much max life, lgoh and attack speed as you can possibly get. I am at 9374 life and 1276 ES, 203 lgoh and 30 ESgoh, 7.12 aps with cyclone without flasks or focus. And I would still prefer to have even more of all this. Scaling defenses is much more important than offenses at some point, and atkspeed is a crucial part of our defense.

Cool build to OP and I especially like your setup KaptnSharky.

Question though, would Champion be a better pick for this build?

Pros:

-Minions have 100% chance to hit. Not a big boon over Guardian, but still useful.
-Enemies take 20% increased damage. Huge damage buff.
-Also has access to Intimidate.
-Free Adrenaline proc when you get chunked hard.
-10% attack speed and +1000 base armour and eva during fortify.
-6% reduced damage taken, 10% reduced for your HoP minions.
-(OPTIONAL) If you get Intimidate on gear somewhere, you can instead trade Intimidate and Adrenaline for the Banner node and run Dread Banner, giving another more phys multiplier to your minions and double Fortify effect when you place it making you even tankier. Or you could trade Unstoppable Hero node for this, hard to say what best option is.

Cons:

-Lose access to free Endurance charge generation, would have to slot Enduring Cry.
-Lose 10% block chance. Lose the 50% extra block chance every 2 out of 5 seconds.
-HoP minions lose their extra special attack.

The skill tree already passes right in front of Duelist start so very little modification is needed. It seems to me like Champion is the far better choice, but I could be wrong. Any thoughts on it?

Some data on crafting ilvl 86 elder gemini claws with 61x pristine-bound-shuddering:
1 claw with lgoh vs blind, atkspeed, minion damage and open prefix:

5 still somewhat decent claws

"

luciferus wrote:

And dont write about heal, im facetanking everthying, except shaper beam with my current gear (which is a budget one)

I actually can facetank the beam btw, life is just sloowwly going down. I still have to make sure not to get hit by too many balls though.

"

cl_gibcount wrote:

It seems to me like Champion is the far better choice, but I could be wrong. Any thoughts on it?

I haven't really thought in detail about any non-guardian version of a cyclone summoner to be honest. But I would say the loss of bastion of hope for block and harmony of purpose for especially endurance charges is not compensated enough. 5 endurance charges that are almost generated instantly (also vs. bosses) are very powerful.

While champion might be slightly better offensively (possibly), I'm pretty sure Guardian is superior defensively, and thats what matters most.

I am convinced guardian is the best league starter. And I am aware that for a high budget, gladiator or occultist are probably better than guardian. Check systemplayerlost's suggestions in the guide.

"

KäptnSharky wrote:

I haven't really thought in detail about any non-guardian version of a cyclone summoner to be honest. But I would say the loss of bastion of hope for block and harmony of purpose for especially endurance charges is not compensated enough. 5 endurance charges that are almost generated instantly (also vs. bosses) are very powerful.

While champion might be slightly better offensively (possibly), I'm pretty sure Guardian is superior defensively, and thats what matters most.

I am convinced guardian is the best league starter. And I am aware that for a high budget, gladiator or occultist are probably better than guardian. Check systemplayerlost's suggestions in the guide.

Thanks, good to know. Champion is definitely better offensively, but yes it's hard to say if it can compete defensively. It's the Endurance charges that are the important part, Bastion of Hope is too unreliable to be a significant defensive bonus in my opinion.

There is one kinda neat solution to that this league: the "+1 to Minimum Endurance Charges" craft. It can be crafted on rings and amulets, giving you 3 permanent endurance charges, which you can bump up to 4 right away in a boss fight with enduring cry.

So 4 charges + 1000 more base armor (3000 actual from tree ~200% inc armor this build has) + 6% reduced dmg taken from taunt = higher physical damage reduction than Guardian.

I'm looking for a character specifically for delving, and this caught my attention, for the obvious LGOH shenannigans. I'm wondering whether guardian or occultist would be better - I can imagine occultist doing fairly well, thanks to increased curse effect + poacher's mark/TC/enfeeble, what with delve monsters being cursable when in darkness.

I'm not necessarily looking to delve deep, btw, I'm delving broad for faming purposes, so I'm more interested in running around in darkness a lot than big damages or uber clears. Any thoughts?

"

Fawkse wrote:

I'm looking for a character specifically for delving, and this caught my attention, for the obvious LGOH shenannigans. I'm wondering whether guardian or occultist would be better - I can imagine occultist doing fairly well, thanks to increased curse effect + poacher's mark/TC/enfeeble, what with delve monsters being cursable when in darkness.

I'm not necessarily looking to delve deep, btw, I'm delving broad for faming purposes, so I'm more interested in running around in darkness a lot than big damages or uber clears. Any thoughts?

Running the OP version of the build, except running Discipline and Watcher's Eye jewel, doing level 250 delve level. I can go into areas with no flares and just using lgoh and energy shield gain on hit I can roam around in the dark for far longer than any other character I've ever played. I'm sure I can go deeper as I get more sulphite.

Thanks for the build, easily the most fun i've had in PoE.

One question, is a well rolled Bone Helmet going to do as well as a helm with the +2 projectiles ?

Thanks in advance

"

Anger1557 wrote:

Thanks for the build, easily the most fun i've had in PoE.

One question, is a well rolled Bone Helmet going to do as well as a helm with the +2 projectiles ?

Thanks in advance

Absolutely not:

Herald of Agony has about 1000% increased damage. So 40% increased minion damage changes that to 1040% increased damage. The actual increase would be just 4% damage, which is nothing.

7 Projectiles instead of 5 means pure 40% more damage. And its awesome for clearing. Get the enchantment, either on a starkonja's or a decent crafting base. I would really recommend starkonja's until you are rich enough to craft a helmet with pristine/bound to get +2/3 level of minion gems, max life and minion damage support.

This is my first poe character.

Im loving the build so far, i've just hit 60 and dont have the chest piece or the helmet but im still speed leveling through the story.

Looking at the tree though, do I really need "Tireless" ? "Combat stamina" next to it will give 3x more HP regen and 1/3 of the life. Do we need mana cost reduction ? I feel like we dont....but im new so i know nothing.

Also, im looking at "reduced mana reserved" on the tree and there are notable ones:
-Sovereignty (6% reduction to reserved and 10% to non-curse aura effectiveness) [3 points away]
-Champion of the cause (4% reduction to reserved mana, 6% non-curse aura effectiveness and 20% aura aoe) [7 points]


They look very beneficial to me, but I want to hear your feedback on that.

I just feel like that i don't have "enough" mana to use after reserving it with heralds.

ATM im only running purity and summon phantoms because i dont have the chest or currency for a 5/6Linked one lol.

So i guess in TLDR, do we need mana cost reduction(the one that doesnt apply to reserved mana ?

"

kiteohatto wrote:

This is my first poe character.

Im loving the build so far, i've just hit 60 and dont have the chest piece or the helmet but im still speed leveling through the story.

Looking at the tree though, do I really need "Tireless" ? "Combat stamina" next to it will give 3x more HP regen and 1/3 of the life. Do we need mana cost reduction ? I feel like we dont....but im new so i know nothing.

Also, im looking at "reduced mana reserved" on the tree and there are notable ones:
-Sovereignty (6% reduction to reserved and 10% to non-curse aura effectiveness) [3 points away]
-Champion of the cause (4% reduction to reserved mana, 6% non-curse aura effectiveness and 20% aura aoe) [7 points]


They look very beneficial to me, but I want to hear your feedback on that.

I just feel like that i don't have "enough" mana to use after reserving it with heralds.

ATM im only running purity and summon phantoms because i dont have the chest or currency for a 5/6Linked one lol.

So i guess in TLDR, do we need mana cost reduction(the one that doesnt apply to reserved mana ?

You want to get as much %life from the tree as you can get. The "reduced mana cost from skills" is just an additional rather irrelevant bonus. Combat stamina wouldnt be entirely bad, but life regeneration from tree is less important than %life.

About "reduced mana reserved": As soon as you have "the coming calamity", it sets your mana reservation to fixed 45% per herald. So "reduced mana reserved" does not change anything at all. For leveling, unitl you have a calamity, it might be usefull of course. I would still just stick to the guide though.