Kay's Summoner Memorial Page | New Guide is linked inside!
If we are chest deep into version 1 of the wand and shield build (lvl 73), what steps should I take in getting ready to switch to version 2?
I’m working on white maps and still have wraithlord and Ullr boots and am working on getting my Spectre gem high enough to swap to a 5 link chest and still have 4 specters.
If we are chest deep into version 1 of the wand and shield build (lvl 73), what steps should I take in getting ready to switch to version 2?
I’m working on white maps and still have wraithlord and Ullr boots and am working on getting my Spectre gem high enough to swap to a 5 link chest and still have 4 specters.
1) Unset rings with dexterity to make certain you can run the gems that require it.
2) A shield with high max life/added block %/whatever resistances.
3) Rumi’s Concoction for plenty more block %.
Curse Gems group: removed conductivity and blind. added elemental weakness and enhance.
Support minion group: removed elemental army. added blood magic.
Reallocated 2 life passive from mara start -> mystic bulwark.
Changed ascendancy default to Mistress of Sacrifice
Changed Flesh Offering to Bone Offering
Notes:
Overall, slightly less hp but 75% attack block and 45% spell block. This is actually much better than v1 build with 50/40 dodge. It also opens the build to 'gain 5% life on block' shields for even more sustain.
Spectre DPS has dropped a fair amount in exchange for survivability. If you feel that you don't need to be so tanky, spec out of Mistress -> Plaguebringer and use Flesh Offering instead of Bone.
The blood magic and raise spectre in the helmet is for using Carnage Chieftain as the 5th spectre. blood magic is needed to maintain frenzy charge generation.
Blind in the curse group earlier was an error. I've removed Blind and Conductivity because Elemental Weakness + Enhance reaches -50% elemental resists. Also because it's not limited to one element, the build now allows for easier spectre swapping.
I'm planning to finalise the new build this weekend with the goal of completely replacing the existing build.
Also, you might have noticed that the tree is very similar to the Pledge of Hands Life/VMS build that appeared briefly and disppeared. That means PoH will also be re-added as a build 'sidegrade' (simple weapon replacement) since the two trees are the same now.
If possible, I want to see if the PoB EB/MoM build can take advantage of the new tree, as well.
I'd also suggest feeding frenzy over deathmark for general mapping, the aggressive helps.
You can also repath your 95 and 100 trees, going straight down from Tireless and cutting up under Warriors Blood, removing Born to Fight up to the Int node with the extra str node. Saves you 1 point. Can also drop the resists node next to Indomitable Army if you craft the hybrd resist on your rings or manage to pick some up on weapon.
Looks great though. I'll be running Temp Chains - Conductivity on Hit - Skitterbots - Wrath while using Solstice Vigil. Hopefully spawn UE and give him a shot this weekend, just missing a low tier orb :(
I don’t know about everyone else but the starter wand and shield build seems a lot easier to attain. This new build feels like an end game build to aspire to but getting all that crafted gear takes a lot of currency...
Can we keep the original build up as more of a starter and then the v2 as an end game goal?
Or am I missing something? The crafted chest, boots, helm, and shaper shield feel like a long way off. The original version had cheaper transition options before getting the end game gear.
I'd also suggest feeding frenzy over deathmark for general mapping, the aggressive helps.
I didnt notice a remarkable difference between using feeding frenzy or not.
So i agree using it on another minion for the passive 10% boost plus another gem on spectres.
I don’t know about everyone else but the starter wand and shield build seems a lot easier to attain. This new build feels like an end game build to aspire to but getting all that crafted gear takes a lot of currency...
Can we keep the original build up as more of a starter and then the v2 as an end game goal?
Or am I missing something? The crafted chest, boots, helm, and shaper shield feel like a long way off. The original version had cheaper transition options before getting the end game gear.
Solid question.
The gear mentioned is not mandatory as much as it optimizes the build for late end game content. If anything, the case can be made that W&Sv2 has a lower barrier of entry given that there's no mandatory Uniques and fewer jewels.
Please keep in mind also that W&Sv2 is being formed when (it appears as if) a good number of people are already at late end game with currency to spend.
It just doesn't seem like the curses are as necessary if you're pushing the min-max potential of this build. You don't need any more damage, so it seems negligible. Besides, bosses have 80% less curse effectiveness, thus a curse for boss damage seems unnecessary too. And if trash already blows up, and it's boss encounters and rippy maps we're most concerned about, we should aim to deal with that primarily imo.
That's an excellent point!! Didn't dawn on me that curses aren't as effective on boss types, so how about curses that they buff us up like Warlord's Mark?? In fact, going to run Conductivity/Elemental Weakess along with that and post results up.
"
With 5 spectres, they could each do 350-500k damage each and would still blow stuff up, but we all know the damage right now is more in the 800k-1.5m range. They just delete things.
At what DPS do we see diminishing returns in regards to T16/Elder/Shaper clears??
For example, what good is it to have 2 minutes clears at 1.4m DPS with a good likelihood of one shots on nutty maps versus the same map clear in 2 1/4 minutes with 900k DPS and being able to facetank everything?? It's entirely possible that dipping too low in DPS causes other issues, so let's explore a solid medium in between.
I don’t know about everyone else but the starter wand and shield build seems a lot easier to attain. This new build feels like an end game build to aspire to but getting all that crafted gear takes a lot of currency...
Can we keep the original build up as more of a starter and then the v2 as an end game goal?
Or am I missing something? The crafted chest, boots, helm, and shaper shield feel like a long way off. The original version had cheaper transition options before getting the end game gear.
Solid question.
The gear mentioned is not mandatory as much as it optimizes the build for late end game content. If anything, the case can be made that W&Sv2 has a lower barrier of entry given that there's no mandatory Uniques and fewer jewels.
Please keep in mind also that W&Sv2 is being formed when (it appears as if) a good number of people are already at late end game with currency to spend.
Yes I understand many people are at end game and those are the most active forum members. Some of us don’t have as much free time though and are still working through the game. And yes uniques can be difficult to acquire (I still don’t have the shield) but I can trade for most of the items. Crafted items are a LOT more expensive and harder to find or craft yourself.
If there are other options for those of us not at the end game I would love to see it as part of the new build. In the meantime I will likely continue with the first version until I can get enough currency built up to swap.
Last edited by Oldsterman on Sep 26, 2019, 10:36:29 PM
I don’t know about everyone else but the starter wand and shield build seems a lot easier to attain. This new build feels like an end game build to aspire to but getting all that crafted gear takes a lot of currency...
Can we keep the original build up as more of a starter and then the v2 as an end game goal?
Or am I missing something? The crafted chest, boots, helm, and shaper shield feel like a long way off. The original version had cheaper transition options before getting the end game gear.
Solid question.
The gear mentioned is not mandatory as much as it optimizes the build for late end game content. If anything, the case can be made that W&Sv2 has a lower barrier of entry given that there's no mandatory Uniques and fewer jewels.
Please keep in mind also that W&Sv2 is being formed when (it appears as if) a good number of people are already at late end game with currency to spend.
Yes I understand many people are at end game and those are the most active forum members. Some of us don’t have as much free time though and are still working through the game. And yes uniques can be difficult to acquire (I still don’t have the shield) but I can trade for most of the items. Crafted items are a LOT more expensive and harder to find or craft yourself.
If there are other options for those of us not at the end game I would love to see it as part of the new build. In the meantime I will likely continue with the first version until I can get enough currency built up to swap.
The v1 build is cheap and a great starter build. You can pick up a sceptre with increased % minion damage and minions have 5% chance to deal double damage for under 5c. Victario's shield is also super cheap. Honestly, this build can easily down shaper for under 25c.
But you are correct. Many of us are looking to push the boundaries of this build in terms of min-max with sizable budgets and a good deal of experience with the build.
It just doesn't seem like the curses are as necessary if you're pushing the min-max potential of this build. You don't need any more damage, so it seems negligible. Besides, bosses have 80% less curse effectiveness, thus a curse for boss damage seems unnecessary too. And if trash already blows up, and it's boss encounters and rippy maps we're most concerned about, we should aim to deal with that primarily imo.
That's an excellent point!! Didn't dawn on me that curses aren't as effective on boss types, so how about curses that they buff us up like Warlord's Mark?? In fact, going to run Conductivity/Elemental Weakess along with that and post results up.
"
With 5 spectres, they could each do 350-500k damage each and would still blow stuff up, but we all know the damage right now is more in the 800k-1.5m range. They just delete things.
At what DPS do we see diminishing returns in regards to T16/Elder/Shaper clears??
For example, what good is it to have 2 minutes clears at 1.4m DPS with a good likelihood of one shots on nutty maps versus the same map clear in 2 1/4 minutes with 900k DPS and being able to facetank everything?? It's entirely possible that dipping too low in DPS causes other issues, so let's explore a solid medium in between.
I've been testing conductivity and ele weakness and I feel like they are negligible. Stuff just gets deleted. And as I said before, their damage increase, while good, is less noticeable with bosses.
Regarding the dps threshold, I think it has yet to be determined, but honestly, any build that can do 2.5m dps should easily and quickly clear all end-game content. That would require only 500k dps per spectre, which we basically double atm, likely even more.
I might go back to running Temp Chains, but honestly, I'm testing right now for what will provide the most effective health and damage mitigation while keeping my dps well above average, at least 800k+ per spectre.
