That list seems to be completely wrong. I know the numbers are from Poe DB, but I was curious because ingame Redemption Sentries have faster boss killing times than Slave Drivers and Esh, like by alot! And its not just Hatred.
Redemption Sentries however have ~3755 average Hit at the same lvl on their Default Attack, yet poe db states 1913 base damage. Looking at different spectre pages and numbers I noticed this line: "active_skill_damage_+%_final [1]" is the only thing that Redemptions have, that the other Spectres don't.
Whoops. I made a mistake with my lazy calculation. I'm so sorry (T＿T)
I forgot about (active_skill_damage_+%_final). So my number is very far off. Sorry about that. It is 200% at level 84, 1% at level 20. So 194% at level 82.
So if you use my number 1275 x 2.94 = 3748. It's close to POB?
But you are right about attack spectres. They are really hard to understand! I think there is a base damage value for all monsters. And then there is level scaling. Then base damage modifier. Then skill scaling and other things like conversion.
When I started this reply. I did a lot of checking! I use pypoe to check the stats properly this time ^^ And I think there's a major problem in POB numbers!
If you look at the calculation for RS default attack. The physical hit has '0.75 (base damage multiplied by base damage multiplier)'. But in the spectre stats the base damage multiplier is 1.5. So why is it 0.75 in POB?
EVF stats also has base damage multiplier 1.5. And when you choose default attack, it is the same 0.75. But if you look at Elemmental Hit it is 1.5. So the Ele hit matches the stats, but not default attack (why?)
If you check Slave Driver (base damage multiplier = 1) and check default attack, it is also 0.75!
So I think 'default attack' calculation in POB is just giving flat 75% multiplier to all spectres. (why?)
But the default attack for Redemption Sentry is actually MeleeEyrieArrow. It is a special attack like EVF's ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion. It is not a basic default attack.
So, I looked in the POB spectre lua. MeleeEyrieArrow has 'baseMultiplier = 0.75'. And ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion has 'baseMultiplier = 1.5'. (why?)
Why do both spectres have damage 1.5 in the stats, but POB has 0.75 for RS ability and 1.5 for EVF ability. Seem strange. So I looked at Contents.ggpk.
ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion:
stat1value is 200, stat1 key is 634.
There is no 1.5 or 150 in the full stat line.
MeleeEyrieArrow:
stat2value is 200. stat2 key is 634.
stat1value is 75. stat1 key is 1110.
There is only one 0.75 in the full stat line.
634 is active_skill_damage_+%_final
1110 is skill_physical_damage_%_to_convert_to_cold
So it looks like 'baseMultiplier' was added manually and not taken from the stat line. But I'm not sure why 'baseMultiplier = 0.75' is added to MeleeEyrieArrow because the only 0.75 (or 75) is for cold conversion and ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion has no 1.5 or 150, but it has 'baseMultiplier = 1.5'. Did the updater make a mistake because they saw 75 in the same 'stat1' position?
So... maybe the base damage for RS should be the same as EVF actually. It should also have 'baseMultiplier = 1.5'.
That would mean the actual RS hit (and also RK!) is the same as the Cold Hit for EVF! I think that's why RS kills boss quicker than other spectre but the POB DPS is not as good.
"
Redemption Sentries have faster boss killing times than Slave Drivers and Esh, like by alot!
Yep, was checking the Lua files aswell. Could not make sense of it yet.
I am not sure if they are at the same lvl as EVF. EVF are just not consistant with Ele Hit.
If you check my first videos/pobs you can tell that the numbers in pob seem to be somewhat right when you compare kill times, dps and guardian HP values.
However... check out RS base damage jump from lvl 19 skill gem to lvl 20 in pob ... like holy damn. Jumps up from 800 to 2600. Something is super fishy here...
Thats the 200% I supose... but damn what a jump. EFV scale smoothly at all levels.
Edit:
So I can replicate the numbers in pob. However the question still remains why RS have a 0.75 base multiplier on Eyriearrow.
With the 0.75 they get the ~4k base hit in pob at 82
And EVF get their 8k base hit with their 1.5 multiplier so thats all fine.
If RS had a 1.5 multiplier on Eyriearrow they would indeed have a higher average hit than EFV at ~8.4k.
hey, Kay, i checked your lvling option that you update recently, and i encountered some problems:
1) Spectres die to Dominus, and sometime to Piety Act3, almost all the time to Piety Act4 and to Malchai, (tested with Fire Eaters and Flame sentinels)
2) Consecrated ground is not enough to sustain minions against some bosses or Delirum stuff (i also had minion life and resists and leech right above templar starting point)
so i want some advice on how to solve the problems.
Are there any high HP spectres you can get?
I also tested a Impale Skellie option that spect later into Spectres, using Infernal Legion SKitterbots for clear, they seem much nicer cuz you can resummon constantly. Ragin spirits feel very bad because, no idea why their damage is so terrible
Thanks for feedback!
The update is from levelling notes for a new alt in SSF. I changed the notable progression for more minion DPS early and then minion notables in templar area. I didn't have a problem with act 4 piety (one zombie died) and Dominus. But I got lucky 4-link blue helmet and I crafted +1 minion.
Maybe I will change back to Skeleton instead of SRS for early act as well.
Flame Sentinel actually has more life than FE, but less DPS. Stygian Revenant has more DPS similar life, but it shoots a nova (bad for bosses). I can't think of another spectre to use >_<
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶
Yep, was checking the Lua files aswell. Could not make sense of it yet.
I am not sure if they are at the same lvl as EVF. EVF are just not consistant with Ele Hit.
If you check my first videos/pobs you can tell that the numbers in pob seem to be somewhat right when you compare kill times, dps and guardian HP values.
However... check out RS base damage jump from lvl 19 skill gem to lvl 20 in pob ... like holy damn. Jumps up from 800 to 2600. Something is super fishy here...
Thats the 200% I supose... but damn what a jump. EFV scale smoothly at all levels.
I saw your video! Really nice RS showcase. I wanted to do the same, but I was so poor so couldn't buy any gear like yours. So my RS version is for poor players like me.
Yeah, the stat line for MeleeEyrieArrow is damage 0 at 19 ('level 2'), then damage 1 at 20 ('level 3').
Somehow, POB does a big jump from 0% at level 19 gem to 174% at level 20 gem. I think it's actually supposed to be spectre level, not gem level. So it shouldn't do that anyway.
I think the problem with POB is number is much higher than real DPS. For any skill. Because it is perfect condition (every attack hits the boss and there is no movement, etc). I think the real DPS is maybe half POB number, so your video might actually match the POB number with base multiplier 1.5?
I just mention EVF because the damage multiplier in lua seems correct, so the cold damage number should be correct. Their game DPS is really random because of ele hit random element.
If you want to learn the lua, I think you also need to look at the stats from Contents.ggpk. This is also how I add a lot of new spectres to my POB.
GrantedEffects has the ability name and the id number
GrantedEffectsPerLevel has the ability stats. use the id number to match (GrantedEffectsKey)
Stats has the modifiers (stats key)
You will need pypoe: https://github.com/OmegaK2/PyPoE
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶
Last edited by kayella on Jun 10, 2020, 4:32:05 PM
The update is from levelling notes for a new alt in SSF. I changed the notable progression for more minion DPS early and then minion notables in templar area. I didn't have a problem with act 4 piety (one zombie died) and Dominus. But I got lucky 4-link blue helmet and I crafted +1 minion.
Maybe I will change back to Skeleton instead of SRS for early act as well.
Flame Sentinel actually has more life than FE, but less DPS. Stygian Revenant has more DPS similar life, but it shoots a nova (bad for bosses). I can't think of another spectre to use >_<
So, i'll get into more details of how i tested:
Overall i did 5 *spectres from 28* tests in fresh SSF league.
Pathing generaly was: Witch Start->Enduring Bond -> Lord of the Dead -> Death Attunement
After this i tried different aproaches, going to Sacrifice or to Indomitable Army or to Gravepact or rushing Spiritual Aid (worst idea)
The gearing and skill setup was mostly the same:
Raging Spirits with Zombies and Holy Flame Totem. As mana Reservation i was using Skitterbots except for 2 last runs where i got rid of them at 28 (bad idea again)
The skellie runs were as follows:
Enduring Bond -> Lord of the Dead -> Gravepact -> Death Attunement -> Indomitable Army with Elemental Equilibrium.
This was followed by more life and Spiritual Aid.
The links i used were (up untill skellies it does not rly matter)
Summon Skeletons with Melee Splash and Minion Damage
Summon Skitterrbots with Infernal legion and Minion Damage
Holy Flame Totem with Phantasm and Minion Damage (or just with Phantasms if i did not have the 3rd link)
Flame Dash
Smoke Mine
Overall required 3x3L and 2x1L
Later i added Dread Banner, Stone Golem and Punishment
I got spectres in act 5, Slave Drivers in a 4L getting rid of Holy Flame Totem
If i had the links i also added Zombies and Feeding Frenzy (all linked to the Golem)
Edit:
I plan to rush Redemption Sentries next league, playing with Slave Drivers until i get them in the first Veritania map, so i am looking for the least painful method to progress up until there with as few respecs as possible
Last edited by muramiri on Jun 10, 2020, 5:01:17 PM
The inconsistencies in PoB got me to thinking about how Enhanced Vaal Fallen work, so I decided to do some real-life tests, because PoB is no help at all with EVF.
I tested it by using a level 7 raise spectre gem, and only 1 EVF and nothing else. Then I tested its damage in blood aquaducts. With 0 support gems, it would usually take 2-3 hits to kill a regular enemy, and 4-5 hits for a blue magic enemy, and about 10 hits to kill a yellow rare enemy.
Then I would try adding in support gems to test what the damage difference was. The first thing I noticed is that Melee Physical Damage has ZERO effect on EVF's main attack! Also, when I turned on Hatred aura, when EVF would do a cold attack, there was a huge difference (with cluster jewels my hatred has +90% aura effect), but it had ZERO effect when he did fire or lightning attacks. You can tell what type of element attack he is doing by the color of the attack. And finally, "Added Fire Damage" also has no effect on damage.
So I've come to the conclusion that EVF's Elemental Hit attack does ZERO base physical damage. Their damage is not physical being converted to a random element, it's just 100% elemental. Which makes sense because that's how the skill gem Elemental Hit works. Their leap slam attack does do physical damage though, because melee physical attack did seem to increase it's damage.
I don't know who uses EVF anymore, but it seems like from testing that Melee Physical Damage support doesn't apply to their attacks. When I look at spectre builds that use EVF, they all are using melee physical damage support, but real-life testing shows it to be useless. And Hatred only effects 1/3 of their attacks. ^^
I plan to rush Redemption Sentries next league, playing with Slave Drivers until i get them in the first Veritania map, so i am looking for the least painful method to progress up until there with as few respecs as possible
I'm pretty sure that Redemption Sentries will only spawn on T14+ maps. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember.
The inconsistencies in PoB got me to thinking about how Enhanced Vaal Fallen work, so I decided to do some real-life tests, because PoB is no help at all with EVF.
I tested it by using a level 7 raise spectre gem, and only 1 EVF and nothing else. Then I tested its damage in blood aquaducts. With 0 support gems, it would usually take 2-3 hits to kill a regular enemy, and 4-5 hits for a blue magic enemy, and about 10 hits to kill a yellow rare enemy.
Then I would try adding in support gems to test what the damage difference was. The first thing I noticed is that Melee Physical Damage has ZERO effect on EVF's main attack! Also, when I turned on Hatred aura, when EVF would do a cold attack, there was a huge difference (with cluster jewels my hatred has +90% aura effect), but it had ZERO effect when he did fire or lightning attacks. You can tell what type of element attack he is doing by the color of the attack. And finally, "Added Fire Damage" also has no effect on damage.
So I've come to the conclusion that EVF's Elemental Hit attack does ZERO base physical damage. Their damage is not physical being converted to a random element, it's just 100% elemental. Which makes sense because that's how the skill gem Elemental Hit works. Their leap slam attack does do physical damage though, because melee physical attack did seem to increase it's damage.
I don't know who uses EVF anymore, but it seems like from testing that Melee Physical Damage support doesn't apply to their attacks. When I look at spectre builds that use EVF, they all are using melee physical damage support, but real-life testing shows it to be useless. And Hatred only effects 1/3 of their attacks. ^^
Nah. Elehit from EVF converts their base Phys to one of the 3 elements unlike the player elehit that has flat damage as a base.
The reason you don't see much of Hatred when they use fire or lightning is because of the Ele Hit mechanic.
"Each attack with this skill will choose an element at random, and will only be able to deal damage of that element"
Thats why Added Fire only works on the fire portion of ele hit.
Melee Phys still applies to the base, which then gets converted, you can use Maim and Fortify aswell.
We still decide to focus on one element despite wasting potential and cold damage has simply the most support. Other than Hatred/Haste, there isn't much for scaling EVF.
Treat them like a walking Ruthless Gem. Every 3rd or so attack when elehit procs cold they just slap the living shit out of something.
Note: I just copied the Default attack from Redemption Sentry.
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Edit: I checked the stats in the big google spread sheet and RK's MeleeCold has the same stats as RS's MeleeEyrieArrow.
Edit 2: I installed PyPoE. And trying to find skill stats to add to POB. It's really hard to find stuff in the gpk file. Does anyone know where the monster skills are??
Hi Kay, can you provide a bit more detail how I can add RK to POB?
First off, where do you find this file:
Path of Building\Data\3_0\Spectres.lua
It does not exist on my computer. Do I edit this file online?
I plan to rush Redemption Sentries next league, playing with Slave Drivers until i get them in the first Veritania map, so i am looking for the least painful method to progress up until there with as few respecs as possible
I'm pretty sure that Redemption Sentries will only spawn on T14+ maps. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember.
You can get them in lowest tier of maps where Veritania can spawn (so at least T3), tested.
