[3.5]FJTHEBEAST| DW Nebuloch Chieftain Molten Strike |90% Dmg Mitigation|9M Shaper DPS| All content

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broseidon07 wrote:
Oh I see. well that's cool considering I just beat the game as chieftan and did all my ascendancies.

edit: what is an optimal tree for jugg, since we need to get avatar of fire

double edit: if we go jugg is it still optimal to DW nebuloch's or should we use something else?

triple edit: apparently getting avatar of fire doesn't do anything when used in conjunction with xoph's blood? so there's no 100% conversion? also still looking for a good jugg version of this build, whether or not it DW's nebuloch


You always use dual Nebulochs. They are far too powerful in a build that focuses on Endurance Charges to drop.

You don't use Avatar of Fire when you have Xoph's Blood. The reason it's in the test build, is because neither of us (FJ or me) have a Xoph's Blood.

When you have Xoph's, you respec out of Avatar and the 2 points in front of it and spend them on damage or life.

As for passive trees for Juggernaut (mostly defensive)

Xoph:
Spoiler
https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/3.3.0/AAAABAEDABzcjxr8S3zZpqPvfJLQbyePYAUtwGbkrT38hmCCB3bnA9ZfP2dYUebvTsT2vJ9QR7l-f-OexXKp2CR08Ro46hjPfrvtMtGQVWBB5FES4TwFV5fkVaZXTeMhYPJFvWBlTV4TFE2RztNvrj7-jwbDxq5gkTpStz4w-L02892Mz-8OU6ULYTH72L04U2NwZ5sTpWjyFHHawRQgr2zGBFhjOuEm8_4KU1J67-vuYVLG2KIARreaag48OthoZYKbg18MX6cIHKdWSBHVd1O-p0CgOzvZfEWdR341kprgJy92rPcydO32SASzRUf464PMPC3wH4TZd-VDMSKvGJE=


No Xoph:
Spoiler
https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/3.3.0/AAAABAEDABzcjxr8S3zZpqPvfJLQbyePYAUtwGY9_IZgggd25wPWXz9R5u9OxPa8n1BHuX5_457FcqnYJHTxGjjqGM9-u-0y0ZBVj0ZgQeRREuE8BVeX5FWvjaZXTeMhYPJFvWBlTV4TFE2RztNvrj7-jwbDxq46Urc-MPi9NvPdjM_vDlOlC2Ex-9i9OFNjcGebE6Vo8hRx2sEUIK9sxgRYYzrhJvP-ClNSeu_r7mFSxtiiAEa3mmoOPDrYaGWCm4NfDF-nCBynVkgR1XdTvqdAoDs72XxFnUd-NZKa4Ccvdqz3MnTt9kgdFASzRUf464PMPC3wH4TZd-VDMSKvGJE=


I forgot to take out the point of Resolute Technique I think in the trees above, my bad.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Last edited by Xavathos#5130 on Sep 14, 2018, 12:50:40 PM
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Xavathos wrote:
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fjtheknight wrote:
Ok thanks ! Would you please do the same thing but using items from my PoB build? Because I tried to compare jugg and chief many times and I think that gear has a big influence on the result.

Brb in 3 or 8 hours. Thanks !


Sure, here you go.

Chief: https://pastebin.com/Eqtfbi45
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/ZAyQn6DT

I didn't change any gear, apart from the fact I cheated fire res on the Jugg's jewel, to save time. I could sacrifice some other suffix somewhere but it wouldn't matter for this test. The 40% chaos res Jugg gets from his passive roughly equals 100% fire res from Chief as far as suffix value goes.

Problem is Wise Oak wouldn't work without fire res being highest, so that's what would make it seem like Jugg is worse. Maybe that's what you forgot? :)

I shaved the skills down to the ones that matter for the test and (un)checked only appropriate boxes.

Results…

As you can see, there's but a minor difference between the two. Throw in a Xoph's Blood on both and you'll see the Jugg take off, while it doesn't add much to the Chief at all (as he gets most of it through passives). If you want a little bit more damage on Jugg at the cost of mitigation, you could drop Unrelenting for Unyielding for damage and AOE. Personally, I wouldn't though.

The problem isn't really with Chief, it's a great class. Xoph's Blood is just too powerful. It's like half a Chieftain around your neck for non-Chieftain classes. Otherwise they would be pretty similar, but saying Chieftain is twice the damage is not accurate, as you can tell. You just need to play your cards right and play into Jugg's power (accuracy) while Chief is much more straight forward.


You gave me these links (for Consecrated ground not Molten strike :D ):

First two links:

Chief: https://pastebin.com/e2ke8Zg9 => dps = 224415
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/0A3Kgydq => dps = 218992

=> Chief > Jugg

Second two links:
Chief: https://pastebin.com/Eqtfbi45 => dps = 494731
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/ZAyQn6DT => dps = 475240 (even if you use xoph's blood here, Chief dps > jugg dps)

=> Chief > Jugg

Unless my brain is lagging :D, which is highly possible btw, Chieftain is always superior to Juggernaut, no?

EDIT:

"
Xavathos wrote:


As you can see, there's but a minor difference between the two. Throw in a Xoph's Blood on both and you'll see the Jugg take off, while it doesn't add much to the Chief at all (as he gets most of it through passives).


If you throw in Xoph's Blood on a Jugg, I will throw in a 10 ex rare amulet on Chief, and Chief wins again ^^



Last edited by fjtheknight#6070 on Sep 14, 2018, 12:05:31 PM
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broseidon07 wrote:


But not having to throw in a xoph's blood on the chieftan means we can use a conversion elder amulet which would boost the DPS way more, right?


Correct
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Mecielle wrote:
I am currently thinking about doing this as a Jugg. Currency is no issue and as Xavathos has pointed out in his helpful posts on the last pages, if you have the currency you can scale Jugg much higher than Chieftain.

My plan is to grind to depth 600 with this but I have one concern:

The clearspeed in maps. I will have to farm a lot of maps for Sulfite and doing so with a 1.4 APS weapon sounds really, really slow.

My solution would be using a 3g Prismatic Eclipse and a high APS mainhand in maps. Has anyone done that for T15+ clearing? How was the survivability without the Nebulochs?

I know Jugg negates a lot of the defensive problems that Chief would get without the Nebulochs, but wanted to make sure that its not a problem.


I am still convinced that Chieftain is better than Jugg and can be scaled much higher tahn juggernaut. I'm still waiting for Xav's reply because I think he miscalculated something.

For mapping, you can use Grelwood Shank in main hand: 1.8 aps, you don't loose too much damage and is very cheap. Keep one nebuloch for extra damage and defenses.
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fjtheknight wrote:
"
Xavathos wrote:
"
fjtheknight wrote:
Ok thanks ! Would you please do the same thing but using items from my PoB build? Because I tried to compare jugg and chief many times and I think that gear has a big influence on the result.

Brb in 3 or 8 hours. Thanks !


Sure, here you go.

Chief: https://pastebin.com/Eqtfbi45
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/ZAyQn6DT

I didn't change any gear, apart from the fact I cheated fire res on the Jugg's jewel, to save time. I could sacrifice some other suffix somewhere but it wouldn't matter for this test. The 40% chaos res Jugg gets from his passive roughly equals 100% fire res from Chief as far as suffix value goes.

Problem is Wise Oak wouldn't work without fire res being highest, so that's what would make it seem like Jugg is worse. Maybe that's what you forgot? :)

I shaved the skills down to the ones that matter for the test and (un)checked only appropriate boxes.

Results…

As you can see, there's but a minor difference between the two. Throw in a Xoph's Blood on both and you'll see the Jugg take off, while it doesn't add much to the Chief at all (as he gets most of it through passives). If you want a little bit more damage on Jugg at the cost of mitigation, you could drop Unrelenting for Unyielding for damage and AOE. Personally, I wouldn't though.

The problem isn't really with Chief, it's a great class. Xoph's Blood is just too powerful. It's like half a Chieftain around your neck for non-Chieftain classes. Otherwise they would be pretty similar, but saying Chieftain is twice the damage is not accurate, as you can tell. You just need to play your cards right and play into Jugg's power (accuracy) while Chief is much more straight forward.


You gave me these links (for Consecrated ground not Molten strike :D ):

First two links:

Chief: https://pastebin.com/e2ke8Zg9 => dps = 224415
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/0A3Kgydq => dps = 218992

=> Chief > Jugg

Second two links:
Chief: https://pastebin.com/Eqtfbi45 => dps = 494731
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/ZAyQn6DT => dps = 475240 (even if you use xoph's blood here, Chief dps > jugg dps)

=> Chief > Jugg

Unless my brain is lagging :D, which is highly possible btw, Chieftain is always superior to Juggernaut, no?

EDIT:

"
Xavathos wrote:


As you can see, there's but a minor difference between the two. Throw in a Xoph's Blood on both and you'll see the Jugg take off, while it doesn't add much to the Chief at all (as he gets most of it through passives).


If you throw in Xoph's Blood on a Jugg, I will throw in a 10 ex rare amulet on Chief, and Chief wins again ^^





Okay, show me a 10ex amulet that will beat Xoph's and I'll tell you you're right. :)
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
"
fjtheknight wrote:
"
broseidon07 wrote:


But not having to throw in a xoph's blood on the chieftan means we can use a conversion elder amulet which would boost the DPS way more, right?


Correct


Have you even tried this? Because I think you're just throwing assumptions around now...

You say in both my tests Chief is better, which it is I guess marginally, if you say 20k dps on 500k is better then sure. But you're forgetting that when I put Xoph's on Juggernaut, his DPS is 650-700k and you're still at 500 WITH an elder amulet. This is YOUR gear. Unless your gear is bad, you're missing something crucial here, it's called 200k DPS. And that Jugg is more tanky, we've already established, so again, show me where this magical amulet is that will put Chief back on top, because I'm very curious.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Last edited by Xavathos#5130 on Sep 14, 2018, 12:56:03 PM


Depending on how much strength this build stacks, this might be the magical amulet you are looking for.

I honestly do not know, but I imagine that something like this, perhaps with life or %Phys added as fire instead of mana and higher tier rolls would be pretty nice. The physical damage reduction is a suffix which could instead be 7-13% Increased Attack Speed.

That would make a pretty gross amulet for a Chieftan.
Last edited by LovieNeverDies#4699 on Sep 14, 2018, 1:42:01 PM
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LovieNeverDies wrote:


Depending on how much strength this build stacks, this might be the magical amulet you are looking for.

I honestly do not know, but I imagine that something like this, perhaps with life or %Phys added as fire instead of mana and higher tier rolls would be pretty nice. The physical damage reduction is a suffix which could instead be 7-13% Increased Attack Speed.

That would make a pretty gross amulet for a Chieftan.


Has a 0 too much in the price to be compared to Xoph's. Ok, 100ex might be a bit steep. But if you add attack speed instead of phys reduction it will cost much more than 100ex. And it will still not be a lot better than Xophs.
Last edited by Mecielle#3021 on Sep 14, 2018, 2:32:19 PM
Using this build has been good so far.

I did change a few things however, since I can't find an EC belt I am using Death's Door with 2% regen on recent hit (first enchant yay!) and I have been using Hrimnor's because it fits this build REALLY well, freeze immunity and extra fire damage with a good chunk of health and resistance, topped off with 3 extra MS projectiles.

I currently sit at 6.5k life and Shaper is childs play with this build, Uber Elder I did not manage to beat due to the insane damage and multitasking of the fight, I probably need some more experience. Map clearing is decent, far from optimal but it's far from tedious.

The one big issue I have with this build; gaining/maintaining endurance charges.
Enduring cry just doesn't do a good enough to maintain the charges for me.
The Chieftain only gets effective EC's on killing stuff, so killing bosses can be a real nightmare if you lose them or need to build them up.


One big tip I want to give to everyone, get yourself two weapons with the property: Gain an endurance charge every X seconds while stationary
Having these in your secondary setup means you can get yourself some free EC's before a boss fight, it only takes 20 seconds of standing still.
Hello. I absolutely LOVE this build!!! So much dps!!! However, I do have one question: I saw in your gear you were using Voll's Devotion. How are you generating power charges with this build?

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