[3.5]FJTHEBEAST| DW Nebuloch Chieftain Molten Strike |90% Dmg Mitigation|9M Shaper DPS| All content

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xplazzlox wrote:

so how does this build do in delve?

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fjtheknight wrote:

Let's say you went non crit Juggernaut and took Unstoppable. You can replace Kaom's roots with rare boot for extra fire resistance.You will loose about 500 hp (from 7300 to 6800) and gain about 0.01 (elemental) mitigation (0.09% of ele damage taken with juggernaut, 0.10 with chieftain)

In order to kill you as a Chieftain, a hit should have 7300/0.10 = 73000 raw elemental damage
As a Juggernaut, it has to be 6800/0.09 = 75500

You can see how the difference in tankyness is negligible and how it is not worth it spending more money on Juggernaut.

Also, Uber Atziri storm call deals about 33000 lightning damage, flameblast deals 28000 fire damage, Uber Elder projectiles deal 10000 cold damage, Shaper beam 10000 damage per second, so if you can already tank all of these hits, why would you look for extra tankyness instead of extra damage? :D

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Xavathos wrote:

Actually, I did some calculations on POB and switched out some gear (as this is necessary to fix the fire res gap between Jugg and Chieftain and I've found that Jugg is actually superior in both damage and life/mitigation total. Regen is questionable.

On paper straight up? No, Chief takes that one by about 500 life/sec over Jugg. Jugg however has that 1.5% of physical damage prevented as life per sec passive, which can in situations where you take heavy physical damage (like bosses) net you close to that 500 life/sec as well. So even there, Jugg isn't overshadowed.

Now I hear you think: "Yes but Xav, when I change to Jugg on PoB, it clearly has way lower damage. How does Jugg get the damage?"

Elemental Overload. I would take Undeniable, Unflinching, Unrelenting and Unbreakable as a Jugg. With Undeniable, without any accuracy gear at all, we're at 90% hit chance at lvl 92 and all you have to do is crit once every 8 secs to keep up that EO damage. This brings you in line with Chief, Xoph's Blood takes you WAY beyond. To make sure you proc it every 8 secs, you can use CWDT (1) with Blade Vortex (8). But even without, it shouldn't be hard to proc every 8 secs with 6% crit chance.

Mind you that thing is currently 10ex at the lowest end, so that may not be a thing for many players, but if you can get your hands on one, Jugg is absolutely better than Chief. You'll save 3 points on Avatar of Fire too, which can go into more life. But really, you're not gimped before Xoph's can be acquired at all. See for yourself on PoB :)

The upside of Jugg over Chief:

- Attack speed. (not DPS per se, but you attack faster, which helps leap slamming and apply leech in case you somehow take spike damage and need to heal quickly)
- 4% extra chaos res per charge, for a nice 40% when you eventually get 10 charges (corrupted boots) Coupled with Nebulochs 8% per charge, you go from -60% to +60% without any chaos res on gear or passives. :D
- 5% (all) damage reduction.
- 8% extra elemental damage reduction that also applies to DoTs. (Nebuloch's is only hits)
- 1% physical damage reduction extra per charge (for a total of 50% at 10 charges, compared to 36% on Chief)
- 1.5% of Physical damage prevented turned into regen (this is wonky as it will vary greatly, but basically when you're taking damage a lot, you regen a lot, which just happens to be the time you need it most, so it's never bad)
- Best of all perhaps, incredibly easy charge generation! It's almost impossible to get rid of them.

Man, is that annoying on single target bosses as a Chief. Even Endurance Charge on Melee stun doesn't work if the boss is strong enough as they are highly resistant to stun and their life is so high that our damage doesn't come close enough to flinch them. I had to do things like Writhing Jar + Enduring Cry to gain charges as we're only like... mortal… without max charges. Unacceptable.

I wish they would change the Chief's endurance charge generation to 20% chance on hitting a burning target, rather than killing.

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broseidon07 wrote:

Gotcha thanks. Last question, do you all use the attack in place function for molten strike? missing one or two attacks can be devastating for your mana...not actually missing, just misclicking, clicking open space, etc.

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fjtheknight wrote:

Would you please share PoB links of the Chieftain and Juggernaut builds?

I know that Juggernaut has better damage mitigation, but as I mentioned before, it depends on all of your defensive stats. A character with 90% fire mitigation and 5000 life is more likely to die than a character with 85% fire mitigation and 8000 life.

Another thing to keep in mind is that with the 10-15 exalts you are going to spend on juggernaut to make it playable, you can buy better rares for chieftain and increase its damage further.

So, for the same budget, I think chieftain is always winner. The only advantage I may consider is the easier endurance charge generation.

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Xavathos wrote:

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fjtheknight wrote:

Would you please share PoB links of the Chieftain and Juggernaut builds?

I know that Juggernaut has better damage mitigation, but as I mentioned before, it depends on all of your defensive stats. A character with 90% fire mitigation and 5000 life is more likely to die than a character with 85% fire mitigation and 8000 life.

Another thing to keep in mind is that with the 10-15 exalts you are going to spend on juggernaut to make it playable, you can buy better rares for chieftain and increase its damage further.

So, for the same budget, I think chieftain is always winner. The only advantage I may consider is the easier endurance charge generation.

Of course! I was already working on them after I posted, I knew you'd ask.

To keep it fair, I made a very basic template for both and did not include Xoph's, which we all know is in favor of the Jugg but also 10 ex.

I only changed the passives to give the Jugg AoF/EO that it needs, shaving off damage on other parts of the tree, and the gear chaos res (Chief) changed to fire res (Jugg) to cap him. Also turned off Ash Covered on Jugg of course.

All gear rolls are mid. (default PoB rolls)

Chief: https://pastebin.com/9ZEASV9F
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/0A3Kgydq

Wondering what you think. :)
I was as surprised as you probably are right now. Last thing Jugg needs is ANOTHER build where it is superior... I hope I messed up somewhere, but I think this is correct...

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fjtheknight wrote:

Ok thanks ! Would you please do the same thing but using items from my PoB build? Because I tried to compare jugg and chief many times and I think that gear has a big influence on the result.

Brb in 3 or 8 hours. Thanks !

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Xavathos wrote:

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fjtheknight wrote:

Ok thanks ! Would you please do the same thing but using items from my PoB build? Because I tried to compare jugg and chief many times and I think that gear has a big influence on the result.

Brb in 3 or 8 hours. Thanks !

Sure, here you go.

Chief: https://pastebin.com/Eqtfbi45
Jugg: https://pastebin.com/ZAyQn6DT

I didn't change any gear, apart from the fact I cheated fire res on the Jugg's jewel, to save time. I could sacrifice some other suffix somewhere but it wouldn't matter for this test. Wise Oak wouldn't work without fire res being highest, that's what would make it seem like Jugg is worse. Maybe that's what you forgot? :)

I shaved the skills down to the ones that matter for the test and checked only appropriate boxes.

As you can see, there's but a minor difference between the two. Throw in a Xoph's Blood on both and you'll see the Jugg take off, while it doesn't add much to the Chief at all (as he gets most of it through passives). If you want a little bit more damage on Jugg at the cost of mitigation, you could drop Unrelenting for Unyielding for damage and AOE. Personally, I wouldn't though.

The problem isn't really with Chief, it's a great class. Xoph's Blood is just too powerful. It's like half a Chieftain around your neck for non-Chieftain classes. Otherwise they would be pretty similar, but saying Chieftain is twice the damage is not accurate, as you can tell. You just need to play your cards right and play into Jugg's power (accuracy) while Chief is much more straight forward.