But one Last question, IS IT right that i need to use normal skeleton gem instead of Vaal akeletons If i use this Setup?
Multistrike doesn't support Vaal Summon Skeletons so if you just want to boost your regular skeleton DPS use multistrike and regular summon skeletons.
If you want to use Vaal Skeletons a lot, use Ruthless instead. I personally found that I didn't need (nor often used) Vaal Summon Skeletons so I dropped them in favor of running Multistrike.
The chaos golem... /shrug? It's neat for the damage reduction I guess. This is again getting into the "infinite customization" part of the build lol. There's always things you trade to do any of this.
You trade off power and frenzy uptime for taunt and vuln for example on spectres. You trade off additional Carrion damage for a Chaos Golem. It's all preference. Just try it and see how it feels. There's literally zero harm in trying any of these things out and that's why this build works well as a framework to get started.
I get that it is a trade off - but not regarding damage. Chaos golems do more than double the amount of damage compared to Carrion Golems. But that is not the real trade off since it is such a small amount golems do compared to skeletons. The trade off is the gem slot (in the 4-link: Summon Carrion Golem, Feeding Frenzy, Maim and ??). I couldn't find any better gem to put there that tops 5% damage reduction.
As this is my first forum post I have no idea how to link items here, anyone interested can look at my character in my public profile.
- click on your character portrait in top-left corner of the page
- scroll through list of characters on the left of the panel and click on the name of the character that has the gear you want to link
- hold ctrl + alt and whilst holding those, left click on the piece of gear
- repeat for as many pieces of gear as you want to link
Is really required Dread Banner + Generosity? 'Cause i just have Dead Banner...
My set 1.5M
Nah it's not required. It just maximizes the Dread Banner impale buff. Not required though. I was recommending it for someone else as they seemed to want to maximize damage over anything else.
I get that it is a trade off - but not regarding damage. Chaos golems do more than double the amount of damage compared to Carrion Golems. But that is not the real trade off since it is such a small amount golems do compared to skeletons. The trade off is the gem slot (in the 4-link: Summon Carrion Golem, Feeding Frenzy, Maim and ??). I couldn't find any better gem to put there that tops 5% damage reduction.
PoB doesn't calculate the 80% more damage Carrion Golems get from other minions being around them. Not that it equals the damage of the Chaos golem, but it puts them closer. More like 15-18% less damage than Chaos golems.
Sacrificing a gem slot is another cost, agreed. I slotted Pride there personally as I'm trying out a non-MoM version currently. That said, if you put Brutality there instead of the Chaos golem, with the 80% damage Carrions get, I think they outclass a Chaos Golem at that point on damage... just no damage reduction. It's a complex one for sure lol. Lots of options.
Just testing though at this point.
Last edited by Solanales on Jan 14, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
I've been following the discussions and suggestions in this thread since the start of the league, so thank you guys for a lot of good ideas that have added depth to the original build.
And as this build has evolved for me from "maybe time to try out summoner, guess this league gear won't be as expensive" to "holy crap this is the best build I've ever played, there are so many things to min-max", maybe I can contribute a few of my own ideas that I have incorporated in addition to the by now well known things like Impale, Drad Banner + Generosity or AG.
As this is my first forum post I have no idea how to link items here, anyone interested can look at my character in my public profile.
- Some people already have mentioned the use of wands with "Trigger a socketed spell when you use a skill", but just to be a little more specific: if you put Desecrate, Spirit Offering (or Flesh Offering if you prefer it) and a curse in it, you will automatically while shield charging or casting Skeletons
-> desecrate and use offering every 1-2 seconds (nice additional layer of defense with the constant energy shield buffer and instant reg)
-> cast your curse of choice
Personally I found it much more reliable than CWDT and have forgone Flesh Offering altogether.
- When using a defensive setup with wand + shield and a curse in the wand or CWDT-setup, it is easy to incorporate Vulnerabilty with a "Curse enemies with Vulnerabilty on hit" ring, as we are already pathing near Whispers of Doom in the tree and can apply it with Shield Charge.
- To expand a little bit on Shield Charge, as we are relatively free in our choice of gloves (aside from life, necessary resistances and a free Prefix for Minion Damage) I can highly recommend a pair with "Socketed Gems have 16% more attack and cast speed" and socketing your Shield Charge + Faster Attacks in here for ultimate zoom zoom.
- As I have ~10700 eHP and personally hate the clunky feel of MoM, I've included Dread Banner, Pride and Skitterbots for a big damage boost. To leave enough mana unreserved for casting, you can either get a "Pride has 15% reduced mana reservation" enchant, path to Sovereignty or use Enlighten linked with at least Pride.
- As I was absolutly socket starved with all the stuff I tried packing into the build, some suggestions how to cut a few things down:
-> Raise Spectre + Blood Magic is enough for them to survive 95% of the content and they are easily resummoned
-> If you are using a helmet with "socketed gems are supported by level x minion life", you can further optimize by putting AG + Zombies + Meat Shield into it (and maybe add Elemental Army Support if you have the place for it)
-> Carrion Golems only need Maim as a Support Gem, and Feeding Frenzy if you have cut that from the 6 - link
Hope some of that wall of text will give someone new ideas, like you guys did for me many times.
Thanks a lot! Definitely want to try some of your ideas!
Mostly, since I'm also using shield, I'm thinking about you cast a curse with Shield charge. Seems like a good idea, since, when mapping, I'm always the first one to engage with a mob. So, casting a curse when hitting them, means they are cursed when the minions catch up and I zoom further ahead. I skipped curses in my CWDT setup a while ago, since I didn't think it activated very often and not consistently on top of monsters. Been looking for way to use my one curse efficiently since.
Not sure about the "more reliable argument". I could imagine me fading out looking at the screen and monsters getting killed for a bit, without shield charging or casting skeletons. CWDT would save me there. You really have to be moving all the time with your setup.
I find it interesting that you don't need to cast desecrate in a boss fight, but just cast skellies or shield charge, which you do anyway.
There are good ideas from your post i ponder but need to kill monsters :)
Last edited by varmemester on Jan 14, 2020, 1:20:03 PM
I've been following the discussions and suggestions in this thread since the start of the league, so thank you guys for a lot of good ideas that have added depth to the original build.
And as this build has evolved for me from "maybe time to try out summoner, guess this league gear won't be as expensive" to "holy crap this is the best build I've ever played, there are so many things to min-max", maybe I can contribute a few of my own ideas that I have incorporated in addition to the by now well known things like Impale, Drad Banner + Generosity or AG.
As this is my first forum post I have no idea how to link items here, anyone interested can look at my character in my public profile.
- Some people already have mentioned the use of wands with "Trigger a socketed spell when you use a skill", but just to be a little more specific: if you put Desecrate, Spirit Offering (or Flesh Offering if you prefer it) and a curse in it, you will automatically while shield charging or casting Skeletons
-> desecrate and use offering every 1-2 seconds (nice additional layer of defense with the constant energy shield buffer and instant reg)
-> cast your curse of choice
Personally I found it much more reliable than CWDT and have forgone Flesh Offering altogether.
- When using a defensive setup with wand + shield and a curse in the wand or CWDT-setup, it is easy to incorporate Vulnerabilty with a "Curse enemies with Vulnerabilty on hit" ring, as we are already pathing near Whispers of Doom in the tree and can apply it with Shield Charge.
- To expand a little bit on Shield Charge, as we are relatively free in our choice of gloves (aside from life, necessary resistances and a free Prefix for Minion Damage) I can highly recommend a pair with "Socketed Gems have 16% more attack and cast speed" and socketing your Shield Charge + Faster Attacks in here for ultimate zoom zoom.
- As I have ~10700 eHP and personally hate the clunky feel of MoM, I've included Dread Banner, Pride and Skitterbots for a big damage boost. To leave enough mana unreserved for casting, you can either get a "Pride has 15% reduced mana reservation" enchant, path to Sovereignty or use Enlighten linked with at least Pride.
- As I was absolutly socket starved with all the stuff I tried packing into the build, some suggestions how to cut a few things down:
-> Raise Spectre + Blood Magic is enough for them to survive 95% of the content and they are easily resummoned
-> If you are using a helmet with "socketed gems are supported by level x minion life", you can further optimize by putting AG + Zombies + Meat Shield into it (and maybe add Elemental Army Support if you have the place for it)
-> Carrion Golems only need Maim as a Support Gem, and Feeding Frenzy if you have cut that from the 6 - link
Hope some of that wall of text will give someone new ideas, like you guys did for me many times.
Thanks a lot! Definitely want to try some of your ideas!
Definitely some interesting ideas I want to try. I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion into whispers of doom. I think another option with the Vulerability is to use Merveil's retainer as one of our 4 spectres to cast the lvl 30 vulnerability for us.
I'm toying a bit with the idea of switching the ascendancy from Mistress of Sacrifice to Commander of Darkness. The main thing lost is skill effect duration and offerings on myself. In turn +30% damage and +20% resist all, freeing up more affixes on gear. Has anyone already done this?
Losing Spirit offering on me is the only real drawback as I see it. On the other hand getting quite a damage boost and a non trivial amount of resists.
This does seem like it could be interesting in the high life no mom builds that are running pride and dread banner to get the extra 5% increase to the auras along with 3% attack and cast speed from each aura.
Thanks a lot! Definitely want to try some of your ideas!
Definitely some interesting ideas I want to try. I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion into whispers of doom. I think another option with the Vulerability is to use Merveil's retainer as one of our 4 spectres to cast the lvl 30 vulnerability for us.
Woow nice, i use Frenzy Frenzy, Empower e Merveil's
