[3.7] LL RF Scorching Ray Guardian | 19K ES | 52k Armour|1.5 mil dps| Uber Elder & HoGM DEATHLESS

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LAGROSSESIMONE wrote:

If you use Path of Building software

This question literally arose because I was looking at PoB... for this build.

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LAGROSSESIMONE wrote:

We had the discussion just before : The build MUST be balanced without taking situationnal or temporary buff in consideration.

This build right here literally doesn't do that. It has a net regen, but if you toggle off the Ruby Flasks, it no longer has a net regen. Hence the question, how does this build deal with that? I'm not asking a generic question about how RF works, I'm asking about *this build*.

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mkdnpna wrote:

For your second question, your though is right. RF should prevent ES from recovering by constantly damaging our character.

But we don't thanks to Zealoth Oath.

Zealots Oath is only recovering 325 health, and theres no way thats going to recover, for example, a loss of 10k ES when ES's natural recovery is blocked.

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mkdnpna wrote:

Zealoth Oath have two realy interesting interaction with ES regen :
- First it apply the life regen to ES, so our total ES regen will be greatly increased ;

It applies 325 recovery per second, which isn't "greatly". "Pathetic" is a better descriptor.

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mkdnpna wrote:

- Secondly, it will apply the constant regen coming from life regen to our ES. So even if we take damage, Zealoth Oath will provide a constant source of ES regen that won't be stoped from taking damage. This constant regen is equal to our total life regen.

I've read this about a dozen times now and can't figure out what its trying to say. Zealots Oath is applying a life regen of 2125 to ES, and RF is applying damage of 1800 to ES. The net result is 325 recovery to ES. But since its under constant damage, ES's natural recovery of 3924 per second never kicks in. Ever. Either theres some extra detail I'm missing, or this build doesn't work.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

This build right here literally doesn't do that. It has a net regen, but if you toggle off the Ruby Flasks, it no longer has a net regen. Hence the question, how does this build deal with that? I'm not asking a generic question about how RF works, I'm asking about *this build*.

Ok, so I just loaded the pastebin provided by zzang in the 3.6 spoiler update, and my personnal character.
I uncheckmarked flasks and consecrated ground buff, and this is what I get on the 2 PoB :



As you can see : No flask option were checkmarked, still we have a "Net life regen" information, and it is positive.

So I see few possibilities :
- Your explaination aren't accurate enought, so you should probably post a screen of PoB and the pastebin link that leads to the situation you are talking about (because options you checkmark matters) ;
- You are looking for the wrong line, and should recheck your stats liste in PoB ;
- You missed some crucial option that fucks up the stats.
One of the most common mistake done by many player when looking in PoB is to do not checking if Vaal gems are correctly checkmarked/unchekmarked. PoB does not manage cleaverly Vaal gems and will only checkmark the vaal version, but not the normal version. For Vaal Discipline or Vaal Righteous Fire this leads to some totaly fucked-up stats when you check your character.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

Zealots Oath is only recovering 325 health, and theres no way thats going to recover, for example, a loss of 10k ES when ES's natural recovery is blocked.

Ok so better than long explaination, screen will do a way better job.
As explained before, I loaded zzang's pob from his 3.6 spoiler, and my personnal character from std : here are 2 screen with Zealoth Oath, and without Zealoth Oath. I will only change this between the 2 screens :



As you can see, with Zealoth Oath our "Net life regen" are both positive. But once we respect Zealoth Oath, our "Net life regen" became negative and we suffer an extremly strong degen. On each PoB ZO provide over 3k net life regen (this can vary considering how much ES and regen you have on your whole build).

As said previously, it's the only option I changed in both PoB. So you can easily see the effect of this keystone.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

It applies 325 recovery per second, which isn't "greatly". "Pathetic" is a better descriptor.

I'm curious to know were did you get this number. But considering the screens I provided, I will assume you did something wrong or refering to an unaccurate information.

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

I've read this about a dozen times now and can't figure out what its trying to say. Zealots Oath is applying a life regen of 2125 to ES, and RF is applying damage of 1800 to ES. The net result is 325 recovery to ES. But since its under constant damage, ES's natural recovery of 3924 per second never kicks in. Ever. Either theres some extra detail I'm missing, or this build doesn't work.

I don't realy understand your point here. But let me do a quick resume of how regen is working ...

In Low Life RF build you have 3 importants informations :
- "Total Degen" : This number is how much life/ES you will lose per second because of RF. It's the same in Life or LL builds ;
- "Energy Shield regen" : this number is the total sum of %ES regen and the ZO buff ;
- "Net life regen" : It's the result of "Energy shield regen" - "Total degen".

So, the "Net life regen" represent how much regen you will have AFTER taking RF degen.
And while ZO provide a constant regen, thanks to life regen mecanics, RF damage does not prevent ES to regen, even if we are constantly taking damages from RF.
This would not be possible without ZO keystone.

On your last statment, considering the amount of peoples that succesfully played this build, you can be sure the build is working, so you sure are missing something. ;)

NB : The pastebin used in the screens :
zzang's : https://pastebin.com/jvGEv6ez
mine : https://pastebin.com/VYGMMR78

I'm still gathering ressources to finish some stuff like leveling my gems up, getting decent boots or getting a purity of fire lvl 21 as right now my character is still a bit of a mess here and there however i've messed a lot with PoB and so far i'm still failling to see how you're supposed to play this character without a stupidly expensive watcher eye.

Damages isn't an issue, surviability is and without this jewel i really don't understand how you're supposed to be above 500 net regen. After all the testing i've done, watcher eye seems to be the only answer here.
Sure i've way better regen when activating flasks but it quickly becomes an issue against a strong boss.

anyway, how important is life rolls on your rare items? is it better to get a mana or life affixe ?
also, I'm thinking of dropping Purity of lightning for Purity of elements for conveniance.. ideally i would have replace purity of ice to get rid of the dex requirement however the max cold res is way too good agaisnt end game bosses (i'm very far from doing that tho)

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TheAvatarOfWar wrote:

I'm not asking a generic question about how RF works, I'm asking about *this build*.

Please post your PoB of *this build* as current 3.6 version in start post have over 2000 regen without config and without flasks.
Also please care about correct quotes as in your last post the quotes you've posted as mine are not really mine.

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Epsi_ wrote:

I'm still gathering ressources to finish some stuff like leveling my gems up, getting decent boots or getting a purity of fire lvl 21 as right now my character is still a bit of a mess here and there however i've messed a lot with PoB and so far i'm still failling to see how you're supposed to play this character without a stupidly expensive watcher eye.

Damages isn't an issue, surviability is and without this jewel i really don't understand how you're supposed to be above 500 net regen. After all the testing i've done, watcher eye seems to be the only answer here.
Sure i've way better regen when activating flasks but it quickly becomes an issue against a strong boss.

anyway, how important is life rolls on your rare items? is it better to get a mana or life affixe ?
also, I'm thinking of dropping Purity of lightning for Purity of elements for conveniance.. ideally i would have replace purity of ice to get rid of the dex requirement however the max cold res is way too good agaisnt end game bosses (i'm very far from doing that tho)

Quote from 1st post :

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zzang wrote:

Budget Variant:

https://pastebin.com/qAA7JQVV

[...]

The budget build variant was provided by Lagrossesimone to help people out with little gear investment to get the build going. Please still read my FAQ (especially Q1) if you want to start into a league with this build.

Note that this pastebin was done respecting few rule :
- All uniques items are set to the lowest stats possible ;
- All rare are set with the lowest stats you should focus on (you can take those stats as a "minimum" search critere in your trading search) ;
- Purity of fire is lvl 20 and Enlighten is level 2 max ;
- All other gems are low level (lvl 18 with no quality) ;
- There is absolutly no Watcher's eye in this version of the build ;
- Base body armor in the build is Solaris Lorica, but you can switch it with a Shavronne if you have it.

If you follow this pastebin, and respect uniques slots, and minimum stats on rares items, you cannot end with stats lower than this pastebin. And it's way enought to do red map.

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Note that this pastebin was done respecting few rule :
- All uniques items are set to the lowest stats possible ;
- All rare are set with the lowest stats you should focus on (you can take those stats as a "minimum" search critere in your trading search) ;
- Purity of fire is lvl 20 and Enlighten is level 2 max ;
- All other gems are low level (lvl 18 with no quality) ;
- There is absolutly no Watcher's eye in this version of the build ;
- Base body armor in the build is Solaris Lorica, but you can switch it with a Shavronne if you have it.

If you follow this pastebin, and respect uniques slots, and minimum stats on rares items, you cannot end with stats lower than this pastebin. And it's way enought to do red map.

I already have better stats than this version and i still don't understand how you're supposed to survive a juiced map or any overwhelming encounter with 150-300 base net regen, especially if you run out of flasks.

edit : i'm well aware that the build is excellent in theory and can scale stupidly well but it seems clunky and barely usable without watcher eye

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Epsi_ wrote:

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Note that this pastebin was done respecting few rule :
- All uniques items are set to the lowest stats possible ;
- All rare are set with the lowest stats you should focus on (you can take those stats as a "minimum" search critere in your trading search) ;
- Purity of fire is lvl 20 and Enlighten is level 2 max ;
- All other gems are low level (lvl 18 with no quality) ;
- There is absolutly no Watcher's eye in this version of the build ;
- Base body armor in the build is Solaris Lorica, but you can switch it with a Shavronne if you have it.

If you follow this pastebin, and respect uniques slots, and minimum stats on rares items, you cannot end with stats lower than this pastebin. And it's way enought to do red map.

I already have better stats than this version and i still don't understand how you're supposed to survive a juiced map or any overwhelming encounter with 150-300 base net regen, especially if you run out of flasks.

edit : i'm well aware that the build is excellent in theory and can scale stupidly well but it seems clunky and barely usable without watcher eye

Simply said you are very wrong. Someone on reddit just posted this build doing uberelder AFK IN league with a similar version of this build. I am on my phone and can’t look right now but you are missing something in your character. This is the strongest build I’ve ever played in terms of hard content. I’ve only died once since level 90 and I’m pushing level 97. If you knew me you’d know that is an insane amount of survivability. I am reckless and still can’t get myself killed.

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LAGROSSESIMONE wrote:

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Venetostar wrote:

sry one more question

somehow i cant fit in last aura(nr.7)
i bought a lvl4 enlighten gem but still dosent work.


-using current PoB 3.6 update
-my acc is public

any suggestions?

All your rare items are bad.
Your scepter have some flat fire dmg. This ruin everything with EE.
Buy a Doon Cubeyari.

Your rings are bad. Core stats you should look for are :
- 40+ str / 40+ Intel / 40+ ES / 40+ Mana.
- One of them should have 29+ Dex ; the second should have a flat cold or light dmg (but absolutly not fire dmg).

Your boots should provide some ES, as much as possible. Look for something like this :
- 190+ ES / 25+ move speed / some intel or some res or both.

Your Belt should be a Shaper one with T1 "%inc ES recovery rate" (shaper base exclusive affixe). Get some ES and str if possible. Try to ballance your res on it.


In your gem setup :
Empower isn't a wise choice unless it level is 4 at least. And it not realy worth unless you have lvl 21 SR gem. Controled Destruction or Swift afflication is certainly better in your situation.
It's probably better to play without Empower unless you have a +1 level gem corruption on Shavronne.

Arcane Surge in Storm Brand setup should not be leveled over lvl 7. After level 7, the mana you have to spend in order to proc Arcane Surge will surpass the Storm Brand mana cost. So it will basicaly never proc and you won't have the %more dmg buff from this gem.

Buy aura gems lvl 20. This should not be too expensive.
Purity Aura should be lvl 21 if possible (always looks for Impurity version too, they are frequently cheaper than normal version in lvl 21 version).

yeah i noticed it in a bossfight, after triggering EE that there must be a stat ruining my dmg and that i need to cast to many times storm brand to get arcane surge.

and i will sawp thet empower supp.

i knew my rare's where bad and i changed them before reading your post.
i know they still not fitting perfectly in this build.
for now im just leveling up.

that unique vaal sceptre was a very good idea

thx alot m8!

For everyone complaining about this build and so on ...
just work on your results. keep leveling up, keep improving every slot as explained in PoB or here in this topic.

this build works

Is there anyway of adding in a stone golem or fire golem to the build?

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Epsi_ wrote:

I already have better stats than this version and i still don't understand how you're supposed to survive a juiced map or any overwhelming encounter with 150-300 base net regen, especially if you run out of flasks.

edit : i'm well aware that the build is excellent in theory and can scale stupidly well but it seems clunky and barely usable without watcher eye

As said, the super budget pastebin is good enought to survive in red map. But you will struggle in maps with dangerous mods (hey, it's a super budget version, don't expect too much).

Still, you should be able to reach something like 800 net life regen with boots enchant without any Watcher's Eye.

As an example, here is my character in Synthesis : https://pastebin.com/DGRv7u0w

+883 Net life regen without any Watcher's Eye, and a relativly cheap stuff.

I would highly suggest you to post a pastebin of your character, I will give it a look and try to help you.

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Cruxation wrote:

Simply said you are very wrong. Someone on reddit just posted this build doing uberelder AFK IN league with a similar version of this build. I am on my phone and can’t look right now but you are missing something in your character. This is the strongest build I’ve ever played in terms of hard content. I’ve only died once since level 90 and I’m pushing level 97. If you knew me you’d know that is an insane amount of survivability. I am reckless and still can’t get myself killed.

I suppose you are talking about this kill, am I right ?

If you take a look about his stuff, you will see some extremly expensive stuff :
- An Eyes of the Greatwolf that can cost multiple mirror ;
- A Watcher's Eye that can cost around 80-100ex ;
- Emperor Master jewel (~12-20ex depending on seller) ;
Which result in a 24.5kES build which is stupidly high.

And because he was doing an afk fight, he was not using any skill and so this alow him to play shavronne revelation. But keep in mind this won't be possible in map.

So this is cool for the meme, but not relevant otherwise.

/Edit : The guy who did it said he invested ~600ex.
To be clear, the efficiency of a build should be looks from budget build, not multiple mirror tier stuff.

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vvizard wrote:

Is there anyway of adding in a stone golem or fire golem to the build?

Unset ring. But golem isn't needed.