[3.1] The Blinding Blizzard - Whispering Ice Berserker - Viable for Most Everything

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Kelvynn wrote:

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Keyen wrote:

If you don't like Atziri promise, you can still use warlord mark. But there is the problem of hexproof maps. And if you have both, you can switch a lifeleech gem, but it shouldn't be the norm.

WM leech is almost useless against big bosses (-80% curse efficiency hurts). Trickster will have to use Life Leech.

Warlord's mark with 20% effectiveness is 0,4% lifeleech, which is pretty much similar to the 0,5% leech of the elementalist (it also works on chaos damage). And it's enough due to the monstrous damage WI is doing anyway.

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Keyen wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

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Keyen wrote:

If you don't like Atziri promise, you can still use warlord mark. But there is the problem of hexproof maps. And if you have both, you can switch a lifeleech gem, but it shouldn't be the norm.

WM leech is almost useless against big bosses (-80% curse efficiency hurts). Trickster will have to use Life Leech.

Warlord's mark with 20% effectiveness is 0,4% lifeleech, which is pretty much similar to the 0,5% leech of the elementalist (it also works on chaos damage). And it's enough due to the monstrous damage WI is doing anyway.

Elementalist will have to use Life Leech too. The old Elementalist used both LL and WM, and the latter was used mostly for mana leech and endurance charges, it wasn't really necessary after the introduction of CwC. 0.4-0.5% leech normally shouldn't be enough against the bosses. It's just a nice addition to LL.

However, it needs to be tested with the new VP. If 0.5% is enough to fill the 40%/sec cap then both classes gain an extra DPS gem. But I wouldn't count on it. And since it affects both classes, it doesn't matter right now.

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Keyen wrote:

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Med1umentor wrote:

You didn't even most broken thing that make your helmet and chest add additional ES and evasion.

It's actually very shitty and a huge noob trap. You are locked into specific piece of gears (evasion chest, ES helmet) if you want to benefit from the bonus, which is not huge anyway (at best 400 ES from the chest, 1200 eva from the helmet, which is ok, but not that great and doesn't deserve to be focused around).

However, you will still pick the node because the 8% damage reduction is huge and the immune stun too (since you will not be hit often anyway). It combo well with kintsugi.

I agree that it doesn't deserve to be focused around, but you are underestimating those flat stats way too much.
Using hybrid chest you can achieve same es as pure int chest, but with additional 1-1.5k eva on just chest. And about 1.5k eva from helmet.

Are you saying that 2-2.5k flat eva "isn't that great"? It's like you wear additional high-end chest piece. That 20% evade chance - you pronounced as OP, and those absurd flat eva isn't? And they even unconditional, without any strange eldritch battery shenaningans (which obviously hurt our character way much more). Especially since they can work together just fine.

Moreover, that not "locking us" in specific piece of gear, but conversely made it possible for us to wear much more diverse chest pieces even with CI, without hurting our ES too much (even if it's not vaal regalia, it's still about 300-350 ES on most things that we want to wear, like fox fortune that i already mentioned). For freaking FREE.

I don't know what else can i say... I understand that it's not something like "OP, urgently need nerf", but calling it "very shitty and a huge noob trap" is going way too far.

P.S. Oh, just noticed that old shade form isn't here anymore... Welp, anyway, no point to cry over the spilled milk, flat stats still awesome.

P.P.S. By the way, your OP 20% chance to evade stated as "20% MORE chance to evade", meaning that it's multiplicative. If you have 60% chance to evade, this bonus will make it 72%. That flat eva will give you about the same result.

My current build as a Trickster, featuring:
-The 0 mana wither (elreon ring) with EB, so we always have 20% more evade chance, and enough evasion so we are evasion caped (95%). Two sources of blind.
-200% increased life with VP
-22128 damage per hit on shaper, with an icestorm duration of 6,5s, so in the case everything hit, we are over 4M dps (but I know, it's not the case). It include the chaos damage, which was added on the weapon since it's not yet available on PoB.
-Good defensives layers, with Kingsugi, which synergize well enough with the new trickster node (-26,4% less damage taken if you had not been it recently)
-Two open sockets and three empty flasks, so we can add more damage and tankyness.
-In case you are not evasion caped yet (because you are using Kaom instead of kintsugi, for instance), there is a big evasion node nearby (close to the scion). It will be enough with Grace + stibnite.


https://pastebin.com/DswWv2Dm

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Med1umentor wrote:

I don't know what else can i say... I understand that it's not something like "OP, urgently need nerf", but calling it "very shitty and a huge noob trap" is going way too far.

Nobody will pick the trickster for that. It's a okay bonus, but you won't pick the node just for that. You will pick it because you want the damage reduction and immune stun.

And when you were calling this bonus "the most broken thing in trickster", above the chaos node, so, yes, you were saying it was much better than a thing which actually deserve an urgent nerf.


In the case we are talking, the whole ES bonus on chest is useless since even if we had only 1 ES, we would be fine, and the evasion bonus is "ok". But far from deserving a mention.

what about new warchief fireleech and debuff w/ +20 fire dmg?

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nerasw wrote:

what about new warchief fireleech and debuff w/ +20 fire dmg?

sry(( i meant Chieftain. was half sleep while typing

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nerasw wrote:

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nerasw wrote:

what about new warchief fireleech and debuff w/ +20 fire dmg?

sry(( i meant Chieftain. was half sleep while typing

Was discussed a few pages ago when it got revealed. It's an interesting regen-based option, without VP. It should be viable for most content. But nothing too powerful. It lacks DPS compared to the other classes.

Inquisitor got revealed, and the only change is a slight buff for non-tanks: they added a chance to create Consecrated Ground when you hit a boss. But that doesn't matter for this build cause it already created it while tanking and getting hit. Meh.

And I think I know what's the deal with the Trickster. GGG has got to eliminate the double dipping on damage conversion. They overlooked it last time because there wasn't much of 'gain X as Y' stuff at the time. But now that it got abused on the Elder items in 3.1, they are totally going to change the way it works. I'm expecting to see a Dev Manifesto post about it, or just straight in the 3.2 patch notes.

So then, without double dipping, Trickster gets 45% extra chaos damage on average * 15 Wither stacks, or 0.45 * 1.9 = 0.855, or 85.5% added chaos damage total. And most likely at the price of 1 gem, and no resist penetration. Berserker had 40% MORE damage * 50% MORE from EF = 110% MORE damage and that could be further empowered by resist penetration. Without double dipping, Trickster 3.2 will be less powerful than Berserker 3.1.

Sure, that's still viable and should work. But I think Elementalist will be stronger (higher effective DPS with all the resist penetration and much higher Int), safer (CI, higher overall EHP, defensive nodes) AND cheaper (Int+ES is easier to find than Int+Life+Evasion, let alone Kaom's).

Gonna watch the announcements, but working on the Ele version at the moment.

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Kelvynn wrote:

Inquisitor got revealed, and the only change is a slight buff for non-tanks: they added a chance to create Consecrated Ground when you hit a boss. But that doesn't matter for this build cause it already created it while tanking and getting hit. Meh.

And I think I know what's the deal with the Trickster. GGG has got to eliminate the double dipping on damage conversion. They overlooked it last time because there wasn't much of 'gain X as Y' stuff at the time. But now that it got abused on the Elder items in 3.1, they are totally going to change the way it works. I'm expecting to see a Dev Manifesto post about it, or just straight in the 3.2 patch notes.

So then, without double dipping, Trickster gets 45% extra chaos damage on average * 15 Wither stacks, or 0.45 * 1.9 = 0.855, or 85.5% added chaos damage total. And most likely at the price of 1 gem, and no resist penetration. Berserker had 40% MORE damage * 50% MORE from EF = 110% MORE damage and that could be further empowered by resist penetration. Without double dipping, Trickster 3.2 will be less powerful than Berserker 3.1.

Sure, that's still viable and should work. But I think Elementalist will be stronger (higher effective DPS with all the resist penetration and much higher Int), safer (CI, higher overall EHP, defensive nodes) AND cheaper (Int+ES is easier to find than Int+Life+Evasion, let alone Kaom's).

Gonna watch the announcements, but working on the Ele version at the moment.

So you insist on Elementalist over Chieftain for example. Hmmm ok.

Is there any possibility that the build works on Scion? Shouldnt we wait for scion reveal?

I was thinking of another mean to get lifeleech: Fire leech while affected by anger (Watcher eye).

It's another point in favour of the trickster, since Anger increases the damage, while doing the ice leech with hatred means you are using hatred purely for that.