Elemental Penetration.
" I guess your definition of "extremely useless" means having to hit the enemy one more time than usual? I mean some bow skills like EA and LA can still dominate the playing field. Just some people have their panties in a twist that it no longer interacts with frost wall. If you want to know what IS extremely useless, look at vortex lol Lavender or Leave.
PvPresident, 2016 // You'd better run. “EA is fine” -relith |
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only lapiz can understand me and only i can understand mulla.
what am i? a catalyst between 2 different realms? a link between 2 different worlds? "You have great power. You're right to be proud. It's unfortunate you have to die now, but I will honor you with 45% of my strength."
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" Vortex degen is in fact a thing of the past but one aspect of it is still extremely broken and that's the ability to amplify DoT damages trough regular support gem. I'm playing an Hybrid Decay/Ignite Vortex build in essence and it smash things REALLY hard. Last edited by IceDeal on Oct 6, 2016, 5:42:33 PM
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I'd like to see someone make magma orb work. Show me a viable ball lightning build. Or cold snap. Essence drain. Flame Surge. Freezing Pulse. Arctic Breath. Ice Nova. Ice Spear. Lightning Tendrils. Shock Nova.
Make any of those builds outperform EA or LA or Blast Rain and I'll concede that bow builds are "useless". Bow builds are still able to perform, especially EA in interior maps (IE.: Every 1v1 map). Most SPELLS are useless tho. We've got AoE stacking fireball, cast speed stacking flameblast, SRS and firestorm. I saw some storm call attempts and it was pretty underwhelming. Icestorm is doing ok-ish. Bow builds went for Tier 0/God to T1 and T2. How is that such an awful thing? Crit Shockwave Totem 650k +: #1657327 / Crit VMS (1 mil DPS): #1511368 / Crit self-cast spark: #1565708
1.3 crit firestorm: #1280086 / 1.3 crit Ice Nova: #1219809 / Flame Nova (sire of shards incinerate): #1359847 |
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I understand why rup feels a way about where we're at atm, but that's because fw and inquisitor was only part of the work needed to be done.
This is the time of the pathfinder. If your skill is on the slower side and/or don't have 50-65% block pen then you're almost always fucked. Rup, don't worry, nerf train is coming. Casual it up in the mean time. Let the kids have their fun and check back in December ;) 🎆🎆 www.youtube.com/c/Ahfack
🎆🎆 NEW #1 LLRF Helm -> 30% MORE|25CON|25BURN|-12fire|352es 🎆🎆 #1 Phys/Impale Leg 70% Multi Amulet + #1 Phys Rings! 🎆🎆 ^^Free 7L Fortify Cyclone! 🎆🎆 https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/534134 | |
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guys seriously, many posts here makes me facepalm. i'm having a real life real facepalms when reading these stuff.
i'm not trying to toxicerino here. i just can't take this anymore. i seriously mean no offense here, let me just picture you from outside. ocd_xana is totally far behind to everyone and have no idea about what is going on in pvp scene with his below zero tier build. for him every build is op, everyone does RMT, everyone is abusive, no wonder. no offense ment, it's a fact. if he had problems with losing he would farm / flip or RMT since he doesnt do these, we can say he doesnt care. however, when one build can counter yours, that doesnt mean that build has viability. 2~ years ago's t2 build is not qualified enough tool to give you access to understand what is viable and what is not in pvp scene. what he does is like talking about world economy/federal bank system from his experience, while his job is flipping burgers in mcdonalds. yet he thinks he can have an overview on what is going on and shares his very important insights about how pvp should be. whenever somebody with more than 60ex gear says anything he is always there to release some toxic to turn the thread into green. we are thankful for his beautiful opinios but i rather move on. there are only 2 skill gems in bow arsenal that works, none of them are qualified enough to be T1, a decent bow build requires 500ex+ investment etc etc and some other guy is comparing those skills to flame surge(because he wants every spell in the game to be pvp viable as if everything in other skill gem types are pvp viable) and generates arguments about bow builds through this mindset. holy fucking cow man... i just slapp my face while reading such stuff. i just wanna facepalm and disappear from existence from feeling shame that they cant. these just makes me stop and think... 'what the hell did i just read' im bored to be one of the few who is fair with his build. i always said LA is broken, i contributed my submission to HOGM and its nerfed. and now, im saying bow attack skills are useless, and seriously i'm not saying because im salty and i can't dominate sarn arena anymore(like others do) im saying this because its a fact. "You have great power. You're right to be proud. It's unfortunate you have to die now, but I will honor you with 45% of my strength." Last edited by Rupenus on Oct 6, 2016, 6:11:01 PM
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"I think a targeted change like this is a bad idea because it will change relative performance between pve and pvp of the penetration gems/passives. Different nerf formulas targeted at specific mechanics, will create different optimal builds for pve and pvp. Which is bad for accessibility. If there's nerfing or normalization going on, the formula needs to be as broad and fair as possible, so that a build in pvp plays somewhat the same as in pve. But you could apply your same idea to all player defences (broad application vs targeted). What you're asking for with less -penetration and less +max, is actually good old fashioned normalization. We already have normalization of player damage, normalization of player defences would probably also help level the playing field. To use an example: Players can have between 75% and -60% chaos resistance. In pve the former would only be hit with less than 1/6th of the latter. In pvp the difference is less large, but still huge. Markuzs can fill in the gap here in no time. If there was a normalization applied of x0.5 centered around fe 50% resists, that 75% and -60% would become 62% and -5%. The same principle could be applied to elemental resists after penetration/EE, armor, ... The pvp damage reduction and the pvp defence reduction would also need to be attuned to each other. And a ps: if elemental penetration is found to be too much in pvp, that just means that elemental damage is too much. Elemental penetration is mandatory, everyone with elemental damage uses it. So instead of reducing elemental penetration only in pvp, you might just as well apply further reductions to all elemental damage in pvp. And a pps: I don't think Rup's discussion belongs in this thread so I will resist getting involved :p |
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i think it does, cause ele pen scales with bow skills at best. i'm just trying to make people understand that bow builds have no iability in pvp anymore. any 100ex EA, any 200ex spell build can wreck any bow 1000ex+ bow build out there. probably without even losing one round.
however, bows can have 80+ light pen easily. 10 boots + 10 pathfinder, 15 vinktar, 14 tree, 38 gem, 5 belt. 92, right? we should change the damage formula first, then we'll see what we gonna do about ele pen. it's too early to talk about that. as i said before, changing things very quickly would only occur new imbalances that we couldn't think of, stuff that we cant foresee from our current experiences. bows have really crazy ele pen, but i feel like this problem occurs due to pathfinders overpowered abilities that's where we should address the issue i believe "You have great power. You're right to be proud. It's unfortunate you have to die now, but I will honor you with 45% of my strength." Last edited by Rupenus on Oct 6, 2016, 6:28:43 PM
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" Just to be clear, it's a common conversational tool to give absurd/over-the-top examples to emphasize a point. I'm not LITERALLY comparing Flame Surge to bow builds. Not every skill is viable in PvP and that goes for bows, spells and melee. But I did give out examples of actual useless skills. Those are FACTUALLY useless. When you say EA/LA/Blast Rain/Barrage are useless, there's a reason people call you out on it. For those to be useless, they'd have to absolutely underperform compared to the majority of other things. It would be the only way to make it a "fact". A lot of important keywords here. Think of it like numbers. You're thinking "11" is a small number because the pool of numbers you have in mind is large, but really the pool is about 1 to 15. So 11 is actually a quite high number RELATIVE to the pool. I hope I'm making myself clear with this. Your perspective on the matter is not consistent with what's actually going on. So, to you, bow builds are useless. But relative to all the other builds that are half decent and/or viable, they are not. I mean no offense with this either. I'm just trying to be objective here. Crit Shockwave Totem 650k +: #1657327 / Crit VMS (1 mil DPS): #1511368 / Crit self-cast spark: #1565708 1.3 crit firestorm: #1280086 / 1.3 crit Ice Nova: #1219809 / Flame Nova (sire of shards incinerate): #1359847 Last edited by Simplesim45 on Oct 6, 2016, 6:27:46 PM
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viability: the answer as yes to the question of'if you have 200ex, is that build worth to invest on'
for bow builds answer is no. that means bow builds are useless. a 300ex bow build killing some 500ex ball lightning build doesnt make it top. that just makes ball lightning shitty. what makes a build 'investable' is that you outplay every build out there with just 100ex investment and without even changing skill gems / swaps. that is EA since years. best way to define a build viability is to see its strength vs top EA and top BV. for example BV is worth to invest on(though, soon BV gonna be nerfed to ground i believe) EA, is. somebody has to make a 5 off color +1 chest CI bear trap, that is worth to invest on. i can for example, ad probably do for hall of grandmasters to make it fixed. these are T1's. also, somebody had to make a gg EQ build( deth did) these are stuff which are viable to invest on cause they are not useless. "You have great power. You're right to be proud. It's unfortunate you have to die now, but I will honor you with 45% of my strength." Last edited by Rupenus on Oct 6, 2016, 6:45:17 PM
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