[2.6] SignalShot™ CI Full Ele Conversion TS/Barrage / Shaper & Uber Deathless / with video!

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DicemanX wrote:

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

so CI bow users won't have more than 7k ES even with 1000 exalted worth of gear excluding the bow of course ( full mirrored ) and without instant leech

i guess that the only way to play ES will be with shield, with bow the defence will be really too low to survive in red maps ( beside the retarted shaped strand of course )

with 200ex worth of gear, forget to play es without a shield

Let's not get too ahead of ourselves just yet. The changes to ES and VP/Ghost Reaver are not set in stone - beta testing will determine what the exact changes will be in 3.0, and it's certainly possible for ES leech to be reinstated (to a limited extent perhaps). Furthermore, we know changes to volatiles and reflect mobs are coming, so ES leech might not end up being all that critical. On top of it all, there's an entire defensive Pantheon system in the works, so it's much too early to determine what ES or life pools will be sufficient to survive against the heavy hitters such as the Guardians and Shaper. On top of it all, I've been on occasion running no leech maps with impugnity - reflect can still be handled just fine without leech as long as you're not pushing LA dps to ridiculous and completely unnecessary levels.

Signalshot builds currently can facetank through everything, but if ES leech is removed I wouldn't be overly concerned - the build has great mobility and it will likely take some actual skill to position properly in the Guardian and Shaper fights. That's exactly as it should have been right from the start - the outright facetanking has no business being in this game.

I have a feeling that the rework to volatiles/reflect mobs and the pantheon system will ensure that even 7K ES will be enough, so long as you actually make an effort to manually dodge the big telegraphed shots from the big boys.

On the dps front we know that WED will get a slight nerf, but even if other gems get nerfed Signalshot already is capable of such overwhelming dps that it will likely continue performing well with high enough investment, as it should be. Let's just hope that other builds fall in line, and we don't end up with some overpowered builds that you can make with little currency investment.

the funny fact is that ranged ES get hit hard, like signal shot, in terms of defence

but melee CI got hit harder than Kamehameha level over 9000

i imagine my old 8k es flicker jumping in the middle of a magic pack in a t15 map with extra dmg mods and no instant leech, simply impossible to survive

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DicemanX wrote:

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

Spoiler

so CI bow users won't have more than 7k ES even with 1000 exalted worth of gear excluding the bow of course ( full mirrored ) and without instant leech

i guess that the only way to play ES will be with shield, with bow the defence will be really too low to survive in red maps ( beside the retarted shaped strand of course )

with 200ex worth of gear, forget to play es without a shield

Spoiler

Let's not get too ahead of ourselves just yet. The changes to ES and VP/Ghost Reaver are not set in stone - beta testing will determine what the exact changes will be in 3.0, and it's certainly possible for ES leech to be reinstated (to a limited extent perhaps). Furthermore, we know changes to volatiles and reflect mobs are coming, so ES leech might not end up being all that critical. On top of it all, there's an entire defensive Pantheon system in the works, so it's much too early to determine what ES or life pools will be sufficient to survive against the heavy hitters such as the Guardians and Shaper. On top of it all, I've been on occasion running no leech maps with impugnity - reflect can still be handled just fine without leech as long as you're not pushing LA dps to ridiculous and completely unnecessary levels.

Signalshot builds currently can facetank through everything, but if ES leech is removed I wouldn't be overly concerned - the build has great mobility and it will likely take some actual skill to position properly in the Guardian and Shaper fights. That's exactly as it should have been right from the start - the outright facetanking has no business being in this game.

I have a feeling that the rework to volatiles/reflect mobs and the pantheon system will ensure that even 7K ES will be enough, so long as you actually make an effort to manually dodge the big telegraphed shots from the big boys.

On the dps front we know that WED will get a slight nerf, but even if other gems get nerfed Signalshot already is capable of such overwhelming dps that it will likely continue performing well with high enough investment, as it should be. Let's just hope that other builds fall in line, and we don't end up with some overpowered builds that you can make with little currency investment.

Well, I agree you at the point that we should wait for the finite numbers+changes. I expect the nerfs to be partially reverted for 3.0, because they are way too heavy imo, but that's just a random guess.

The point is however that most of the other top-CI-builds dont suffer nearly as much from the nerfs as signalshot does. Summoner don't rely on vaal pact, EK, vaal fireball and wand builds use a shield and can get 12k+ ES quite easily with it. That's about 8k+ Es after the nerf - without even touching the passive tree.

In case of signalshot however:...

I did a small test and tried to get some sort of endgameviable ES (post-nerf) on my current league-character. I'm still using Brinerot's, so this should be a lot easier compared to a Skyforth-Setup (only one %nerf on the ring).

Since the Es on my gloves/helmet was mediocre, I upgraded it in Path of Building to decent values (410 Es on the helmet and 250 on the gloves, both with good suffixes). The regalia had 936 Es and T1 int (more than decent for a leaguechest).

Afterwards I scaled down all the values (including brinerot's), removed the %craft from the ring and set discipline to lvl 15. With the total of 10(!) additional passive points [melding, most of the scion wheel] and an EWT-jewel instead of an attack-based one, I could finally get 7k ES - without vaal pact. The pre-nerf-ES with the same item settings without any additional passive points would have been 9k.

The damage went down by around 25%, which is not big of a deal, but still a sizeable loss.

TLDR:
9k ES -> 7.0k ES [with serious additional investment in the passive tree]
3.9+mill dmg -> 2.9k
instant leech -> no instant leech

Playable? Somewhat, but not anywhere close to the current state and hardly worth all the investment.

As to the life base version - yes, that is a very viable option and a LOT stronger than CI, at least what I can tell from the numbers above.

*EDIT: made a mistake in the discipline adjustment

Legacy Vinktar.... we don't care about vaal pact.

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Piftiuta wrote:

Legacy Vinktar.... we don't care about vaal pact.

dont be surprised if it's gonna be nerfed. well i have 3 of them, so i'm not writing as "leg vinktar hater" the path seems like leading to nerf all instant leech in the game except acuity.

Well if they want to see people leaving then is ok to change legacy items. Otherwise, legacy remains legacy. A damn expensive item, that everyone wants, so they must work their asses to get exa for it.

in the ES manifesto i don't see why they use the example of 25,000 ES. what top builds actually run around with that much? signalshot is 10k, ele wanderer about 8/9k, howa about 10/11k, golemancer about 12k, vaalfireball and spark are 11k and something like EK is about 10 or 11k.

the only select builds that generally get anything much past 12k invest everything into it, including ascendancies that boost ES, equip high ES rares in every slot, and take all the % they can from the tree.

if that wasn't enough the vaal pact nerf seems silly to only effect ES. that's my biggest worry. i die in seconds if i don't hit any mobs and it will only get worse with less effective life

i think these changes are only a placeholder and will be tweaked a lot more before they come into effect so i don't think there is too much to worry about now. i do hope that signalshot is still playable as it's one of my favorite builds to play. maybe a life variant will pop up but we will have to wait and see how it all plays out.

so yeah, enjoy playing signalshot while you can :P

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crazypearce wrote:

in the ES manifesto i don't see why they use the example of 25,000 ES. what top builds actually run around with that much? signalshot is 10k, ele wanderer about 8/9k, howa about 10/11k, golemancer about 12k, vaalfireball and spark are 11k and something like EK is about 10 or 11k.

the only select builds that generally get anything much past 12k invest everything into it, including ascendancies that boost ES, equip high ES rares in every slot, and take all the % they can from the tree.

if that wasn't enough the vaal pact nerf seems silly to only effect ES. that's my biggest worry. i die in seconds if i don't hit any mobs and it will only get worse with less effective life

i think these changes are only a placeholder and will be tweaked a lot more before they come into effect so i don't think there is too much to worry about now. i do hope that signalshot is still playable as it's one of my favorite builds to play. maybe a life variant will pop up but we will have to wait and see how it all plays out.

so yeah, enjoy playing signalshot while you can :P

GGG has lost touch with reality. Very few builds ever got above 10,000 ES and still had enough dps to clear end game content.

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In case I missed it in the 260;some odd pages can we start theory crafting the life version? Is there a reasonable alternative to kaoms so I don't have to weapon swap on bosses? Any help in the way of tree ideas or gearing would be much appreciated. I've spent well over 1200 ex on this build and would like to salvage it best I can. Thanks ~Old

you can have 7k life with belly and starkonja + 20% damage reduction barrage build with 90-100k rotc dps.

full conversion idea + global penetration idea is coming from pvp;

history
pvp scene was a bit more populated than it is now, so we were playing very frequently vs each other.

with introduction of 100% elemenetal damage conversion talismans(100% of X damage taken as Y damage implicits), in pvp penetration gems started to be useless. when you deal light damage and use lightning penetration gem, those talismans converts that damage to for example fire by 100%, so your penetration gem was becoming useless.

so i decided to convert damage to 100% elemental damage(instead of dealing pure one ele type damage that i combine with penetration gem), add put every "more damage" multiplier gem in 6l, get really high X-Y damage and stack global penetration. people were doing tornado shot builds with 6l eva chests around those days. barrage wasn't even popular.

blast's touch

i was using hrimsorrow first, then switched to signal fire.
my build has been always life base with kaoms or leg kaoms, so this build started as a life based build. it was unefficient cause it was life based.
i dont have pve mindset much, i'm just good with numbers and calculations, BST took full conversion idea, revamped tree for CI and pve usage according to his taste, apparently CI was capable of doing what i could do with 1500ex build just with 500ex. it was a great idea. since baker did in beta, nobody dared to play CI archer seriously. he supported his CI idea with really great streaming and guide support. here we have most popular bow build at the moment.

now it's nerfed.

life?

so, no worries this build works really well with life build too, my char has 7.3k life with belly, i have 8.8k+ life with leg kaoms.

it's not my thread, it's blasting's thread, so i won't be doing any ads of what i do, and what i do not. i can just say that, dont use rats when you are making a life build, stick with belly, use starkonja. get 160% life at least from tree and jewels. it's way cheaper also. it wasnt a good idea to go life build back then, after 3.0, everybody has to consider converting the build to life it seems.

Maybe I did not understand exactly what are they doing to ES, but my impression was that they are rethingking the future items of ES type, not the one already existing. So a 900 ES armour will remain with 900 ES. But any future armour of that type will not be able to get near 900.
For rings for example if you craft +20% ES what will they do? Erase the mod that is already crafted? So if you invested 1500 exa in gear, you still have your gear, but some will be some sort of legacy.

Here:
"These changes will not apply to already-rolled modifiers, but will apply to existing base types. Rerolling items with an old value will update it to the new values."