Snapshotting

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Moose65 wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

This means that if you place a mine that throws a trap that shoots a fireball, the fireball came from a trap and gets trap damage modifiers, but not mine damage modifiers. It came from the trap, not the mine.

Could you clarify this a little bit? Lets say I have Fireball linked to Remote Mine and Trap. Are you basically saying that once Fireball casts, it will lose the more damage multiplier from Remote Mine since it cast from the Trap instead of the Mine, essentially making Remote Mine + Trap support combo pointless?

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HeisenbergBlue wrote:

When this goes live I don't think many summoners will choose to run a 6L. Why run a 6L zombie when you still have to dedicate 4L to spec or vice versa. That being said it seems to me most will choose to run double 5L's in a chest. RZ-RS-XXXX the problem is there are not currently 4x double-dippable gems that will benefit RZ and RS.

Make a flesh offering type support. One that has cast speed AND attack speed which will allow it to be used to benefit RZ and RS while also allowing RS diversity.

Or just butcher it and call it a day...97% sure this is what will happen, 60% of the time I am always right.

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Ghazzy wrote:

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Malone wrote:

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Ghazzy wrote:

Spoiler

Since this thread is being monitored by the devs to get honest opinions and thoughts on solutions for builds that will lose their potentials in clearing both regular as well as Uber atziri maps.. Here are my general thoughts:


Remake the quality bonus on the minion gems, specifically Spectres and Raging Spirits, there is not a single soul in this game that cares about movement speed as a summoner. The minions reaches movement speed cap with Haste aura and Flesh Offering.

Increase Zombie HP scaling, even the % HP from the quality would be a good way of solving this as well.

Potentially overlook the idea of having Enlighten - Empower - Enhance provide their bonuses towards other gems besides Active Skill Gems only.

Increase the stats provided to minions via the passive tree, resistances included. And consider adding/changing so that we can gain an additional spectre from the tree (yes, +2 from tree).

Do not increase the ammount of points we need to spend on minions in the tree as creating a summoner build available for regular as well as Uber atziri maps without snapshotting auras is a hell and pure pain when it comes to the pricetag of such gear that will require resistances as well as a good chunk of ES (as i've heard of no HP build being capable of uber yet i'm strictly considering ES builds in these thoughts).

Change Blood Magic gem to not affect RESERVED ammount with it's multiplier.

DO NOT, let me repeat that DO NOT add more unique summoner items to solve this as they will have the highest possible pricetag anyone could deem imaginable. (of course it would be a nice addition to the game, but for the sake of the entire summoner community, wait with such releases)

Consider in the future to add minion affecting stats to the possible craftables, such as a minion modifier on amulets/rings (blue/rare).

After some discussion with a few other summoners, a guy brought up the suggestion of adding an additional minion that would be bigger, stronger, but could only have 1-2 of that sort to be the big truck so to say. (I do not personally like that suggestion but i thought i should post it anyways).

Change minion defensive nodes to affect you as a summoner as well as your minions
Example:

Spoiler

* Minions gets +10% increased life
* You get 10% increased life
* You get 10% increased energy shield

Increase attack speed of zombies (sometimes in maps (if not linked to faster attacks, but with multistrike) they can stand stil and strike a few times in the air whilst the enemy has already moved to a different country.


And last but by far not least, minion controls:
At the moment if i "attack" in the air they will be (in most cases) moving/attack anything where i am hovering my mouse.
It would be great if said control options would actually have the minion prioritize what ever target the summoner is hitting or prioritize moving to the target the summoner is hitting towards if not targeting something. This will be very beneficial for boss fights where movement can be crucial, such as Uber Atziri 4x Clone Phase.



I'll post more ideas/suggestions when they come to mind, but thats the general ideas i have.

Spoiler

I completely disagree with this post content, I do not want to have overpowered summoners as of today. All those proposals would make it completely imba. Removing the snapshot is a fine balancing on itself and I do not want zombie with 12k HP that insta rape any bosse when I am afk.
The only thing that have to be balanced are summoner unique, most of them will never be played because the gain is not significant vs the drawback to use them.

Spoiler

Ok so the zombies i'm currently using have 15.6k HP (with snapshotting of course), they are still dying on Uber Atziri despite Rathpith Necromantic Aegis (life and spellblock) and I'm constantly using Bone Offering, there are still zombies falling of with the slighest step in the wrong direction.
I am refering to balancing summoners so that they are still viable for the Vaal Metagame, posting my suggestions is not an attempt to create an OP class.

However, I do agree that we are OP as of today IN MAPS. But when it comes to the Vaal Metagame you must wake up (without sounding rude). Because the fact is, I am the ONLY summoner in this game that is publicly running Uber Atziri Services. (Have yet to see other summoners post a thread about it)
The result I want to see is a balanced class in terms of survival as well as DMG/DPS and making us able to control the minions in an easier way (or guaranteed way) would make the loss of DPS less significant.*

* Example: Zombies hitting the Uber Atziri clone with the Staff, 2 seconds later 3 of my very bright zombies runs of to hit another one, despite me trying to make them hit what i want them to hit. Now, if the target they are hitting is the Mirror Clone, they will die, there is absolutely nothing i can do (Sure i could run away and make the screen change pop them, but despite 70% inc movement speed from a quicksilver flask, they are dead before this happens and I myself is in a risk of dying, as well as my army). Now picture a situation where they are hitting any of the others (not mirror), again, these zombies are sitting "safely, OP" on 15.6k HP. A flameblast and 1 Lightning strike hits these 3 Zombies with Bone Offering constantly running and caped resistances = THEY DIE!
During a long fight such as Uber Atziri you go through a whole bunch of phases that has this issue and eventually it will logically take a longer time to kill them because the only way to get such viable minions is via snapshotting which you obviously do not have time for in the map (unless its the zombie phase... good god.. do something about that, it's as tedious as snapshotting) which in turn makes the risk of more zombies dying even bigger.
And whilst all these risks/problems are occuring for your minions you have to remember that despite inc duration linked to my beloved Evangelists (Spectres) the shields do not last an eternity which is not only a problem for your minions but also for you. Sure, you can run and kite the spells from Atziri, but how on earth are you going to be able to cast, rejuv totem, desecrate as well as Bone Offering which are the only spells that provides some sort of safety for them.


I don't want to argue in this situation I merely felt the need to explain myself a bit deeper than how i wrote my suggestions as I have a lot of first hand experience vs Uber Atziri and this is what i feel.




Either case, I'm looking forward for the change as snapshotting REALLY needed to be fixed.
And by the way Mark, would be great if you could comment some of the summoner questions regarding our suggestions as well as comments such as from "User: Nemacyst" or anyone else for that matter.

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HeisenbergBlue wrote:

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HeisenbergBlue wrote:

When this goes live I don't think many summoners will choose to run a 6L. Why run a 6L zombie when you still have to dedicate 4L to spec or vice versa. That being said it seems to me most will choose to run double 5L's in a chest. RZ-RS-XXXX the problem is there are not currently 4x double-dippable gems that will benefit RZ and RS.

Make a flesh offering type support. One that has cast speed AND attack speed which will allow it to be used to benefit RZ and RS while also allowing RS diversity.

Or just butcher it and call it a day...97% sure this is what will happen, 60% of the time I am always right.

I use only a 4L for zombies and another for spectres and they work just fine. What is this dps obsession? A little bit more in dps with supports and a little bit more in life and you are basically on autoplay as a summoner when you add snapshotting. That cant possibly be fun.

I summon shit they kill stuff i freeze stuff with ice spear and cold snap the end.

You would be better off running 4L RZ and 4L RS in a 5L and saving 3x gem slots would you not? min life/min dmg annnnd...not a ton of good options are there?

LOSING AVAILABLE GEM SLOTS is what will hurt most about snap change, every summoner will lose options/diversity/freedom/creativity which is what makes this game fun.

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HeisenbergBlue wrote:

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That is where you are wrong. You still have all that you claim would be gone. It just goes down a little in numbers life, dps, clear speed.

You seem to be missing the point which is not surprising considering that statement. I suggested a new gem which allows gem efficiency for using RZ/RS in the same set of links, then I reiterated the fact that I was concerned more about available gem slots than HP/DPS.

Just to clarify you are telling me I am wrong, because I still have it all...but just slightly less than all. I am all confused, I would like for you to make me slightly less than all confused.