GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

A word of warning.
In PoE, an achievement is paying someone 20 ex for a boss kill, for this you will be rewarded with a limited edition MTX. In PoE an 'extremely challenging achievement' is completing a shopping list, for this you will be rewarded a T-shirt.

The head man at GGG (along with more if not all of them) has stated several times that there is no awesome, no fun, in finding items to use. The fun and awesome comes in finding something to sell. The man who said "it comes back to the core aRPG thing where the reason you value the items is because other people 'want them'".

The word achievement is lost in PoE, self-finding fun doesn't exist in PoE.
Using the two together in a post is double Dutch.

I just can't help it - I love this post. This post catches everything I think is "wrong" with the game.

The most holy thing in GGG eyes, is the economy. Everything in the game, is built around it. The moment a game like this is built around an economy, things get screwed. It's all about measuring your wealth - and what you can afford.

I know for a fact that several of the anti-SFL people in here, flamed at D3 for being a "trade sim". PoE is the same.

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Wraeclastian2 wrote:

Stop removing your postings and show the world your voice of hatred

[Removed by Support]

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LSN wrote:

4 matters of fact as I have proven. No assumptions involved.

Here LSN, You need this link.

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/factsopinions.html

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aldorus wrote:

In my opinion, without coherent and precisely defined "SFL" term and a band of people that all agree on that single definition, there will be no progress in this matter.

There is a band of people that would be happy with one single SFL bro. Its literally impossible to make any league that everyone is happy with completely. A SFL is no different, the point is that its a league without trading. If GGG simply does that then there will be plenty of people who play it.

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DalaiLama wrote:

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Temper wrote:

If the stash is shared then following characters taking from it will not be solo self found and riding of the back of muling/twinking and NOT finding stuff themselves to use.

SFL does not, nor has it ever meant, that a player cannot use a shared stash. It also doesn't mean players can't party.

A solo, non-shared stash SFL would be a subset of an SFL, just as a square is a subset of rectangles.

Self-found means the player found it themselves - NOT the character found it themselves. Altering it to a Solo Character Found League (SCFL) would require drops tailored to the character and a specialized stash structure.

If someone doesn't like SFL, or thinks SFL is a bad idea - that's a valid opinion. Inaccurate declarations of what SFL is are not valid, and when used to criticize the game constitute a strawman argument.

That's what a self found league would mean to myself,for others of course may/will be different.

If a self found league will involve and encourage twinking,boosting,lifting,unrestricted level party requirements,shared stash among all characters on that league,or any other way of characters not being *self found*,then it clearly is not self found and there will be very little *self found* going on amongst all the twinking,lifting,boosting and trading of act boss kills and such for progression.

If there were to be a ladder involved it would be a joke for competitive self found players if the above was the case.

Why would you think that a solo self found character would require tailored drops over already existing mechanics of item acquisition ? It's not something I've thought to be needed on any of my characters.

You proclaim that your version of self found is the vision for self found leagues and a more stringent,true to name and action version of it is invalid and constitutes a strawman argument ? A league where characters are given a free pass to the gear check by another on the character list,yet still self found characters?

If you believe that it is the player that is self found and not the character,then the league will need to be account based and not character based.How does a player find something in game themselves without the character to find it ?

Simply.A character given a free pass in gear (including gems) or being fed orbs by other characters is in no way *self found*.If this is what a SFL embraces then I simply will not support it and continue to support tweaks to crafting and recipes that benefit every league and every player.

Self found in it's simplest rule form to be implemented in my opinion would be

1.trade disabled
2.no party
3.no shared stash
4.Item delete on drop

Yes that makes it solo .... because anything more would actually require coded party min/max level limits,coded party area min/max limits,coded fully instanced loot (never seen by others) and that's not something that will happen.

As an aside,while I'm not supporting a SFL,I am also not opposed to others wanting the option and discussing it as differing opinion and discussion of that opinion are healthy.

=)

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iamstryker wrote:

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aldorus wrote:

In my opinion, without coherent and precisely defined "SFL" term and a band of people that all agree on that single definition, there will be no progress in this matter.

There is a band of people that would be happy with one single SFL bro. Its literally impossible to take make any league that everyone is happy with completely. A SFL is no different, the point is that its a league without trading. If GGG simply does that then there will be plenty of people who play it.

Thanks, just a re-iteration of thoughts if I can.

So in its core, proposed new SFL league (or its common denominator, if we can call it that) should be almost alike any existing league (Ambush for example - that is where I play) but with these and only these changes :

1. no "trade" window
2. no dropping of any item on ground (just destroy dialog as in town) and / or anyone else picking up an item dropped by other player is prohibited with no exceptions.


This does NOT in any way change :

1. party play (~partying allowed, even for sharing a map)
2. ability to use account stash (~item dropped by char X can by used by char Y on the same account)
3. drop rates (~stays perfectly the same as parent league)


Did I get it right?

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mushioov wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

A word of warning.
In PoE, an achievement is paying someone 20 ex for a boss kill, for this you will be rewarded with a limited edition MTX. In PoE an 'extremely challenging achievement' is completing a shopping list, for this you will be rewarded a T-shirt.

The head man at GGG (along with more if not all of them) has stated several times that there is no awesome, no fun, in finding items to use. The fun and awesome comes in finding something to sell. The man who said "it comes back to the core aRPG thing where the reason you value the items is because other people 'want them'".

The word achievement is lost in PoE, self-finding fun doesn't exist in PoE.
Using the two together in a post is double Dutch.

This, my friends, is a textbook example of a lost soul, a soul who lost himself battling the inevitable. He couldn't grasp that the game wasn't catered to his every whim at every turn. This turned him bitter and hollow. He just couldn't handle it so he starting hating. Every post, more bitter than the previous is a testament of his passion once died to the expectations of unreal scale. Now he wanders the forums, hating, whining, applying sarcasm to "bring out the truth", which is not - nor ever will be - reality.

-mushioov

What part do you disagree with ?

What part is not truth ?

What part is not the current meta ?

Self found is essentially "No Trade", much like the races GGG already runs.

They'd just need to make a permanent or even a 4-month "W-NT" modded league: Wealthy No-Trade. All creatures have the Wealthy modifier. Done and done. No coding required - except perhaps to enable the "wealthy" innate.

If it ran as a 1-week "dead end" (no promotion to standard) pilot, we could see how it works. Folks could still group, but drops would be permanently allocated and no trading allowed.

Meh double post somehow