Arc

"

_Madus wrote:

Spoiler

Ye genius balanced this gem

1. LA with 5k dps hitting 10 targets at once = balanced

2. LS with 5k dps multistriking 1/3 of screen = balanced

3. Spork totem with 1k dps shotgunning or cleaning whole rooms+1 at once = balanced

1,2,3 = dont care about mana = balanced

ARC without ability to use support gems cannot clean even fking boxes when there is enemy bcs its random jumping will be wasted on mob while not killing him in 10mins while you are out of mana with 60mana cost spell with 300 dps = balanced

lets add new horns

The pure Lewis Black frustration of this post made me LOL.

"

_Madus wrote:

Ye genius balanced this gem

1. LA with 5k dps hitting 10 targets at once = balanced

2. LS with 5k dps multistriking 1/3 of screen = balanced

3. Spork totem with 1k dps shotgunning or cleaning whole rooms+1 at once = balanced

1,2,3 = dont care about mana = balanced

ARC without ability to use support gems cannot clean even fking boxes when there is enemy bcs its random jumping will be wasted on mob while not killing him in 10mins while you are out of mana with 60mana cost spell with 300 dps = balanced

Couldn't say it any better aside for the snarky and unneeded genius comment. I can understand being disappointed in a skill not working properly, but this is beta. I knew my template would most likely fail but decided to do it to help the community and game. The games mechanics are genius and it took a hell of a mind/compilation of minds to put all this together. Mad props to the dev teams brain power from me. The support gem combinations work and skills is phenomenal and fluid.

However, I would like to add to that list my level 76 Ice Shot Templar does 1k dps, 5 different projectiles, chaining 2 times each, with AoE effect, and a very high chance to freeze and instant skill 1/2 to 3/4 of a pack of monsters for half the mana cost of Arc with a reduced mana gem 5 linked, lol.

"

johnce6 wrote:

Mana cost numbers...

@ 37-40 mana for a decent level gem compared to 15-20 on any archer skill + the ability to hit 15+ targets with ease with any arrow skill why would anyone run this skill? And to bring the argument back the caster side why would anyone use this over fireball or ice spear??? I think I will stick with my ele archer and fireball marauder...And wth is with the 50% damage effectiveness? Add in chain and it is 100% decrease in damage effectiveness. Yikes...No wonder I see NO ONE using this skill.

Mana cost needs to be cut in 1/2 or 1/3. Maybe allow LMP to work too?

Not to mention this skill has no Taryn Shiver or Searing Staff like weapon to use with it...

EDIT: Alright so it is beta so I decided despite everything I have read and the math I will roll an arc spec and see how it goes so I can give some hands on feedback. LvL 38 now. Will come back and give a detailed report.

In depth feed back:

As a continuation of this post I am now level 53 and I give up until this skill is buffed.

My template:

Current skill tree at level 53:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAP0FWwdjCPQMfRB_FLAWbxdQGYUabCQ8JKonqSlPNuk6MDvhRtdJUUwtVcZXK1ptXcZgbWe9bRlzU3kDfll_xoIegpuIQot6i4yPRpuhna6nCKcrp1ysmLUEuJPAVMHFwfPGns9l0NDa3dsL3fPhc-L342rkIu0g7m_31w==


End Game Arc with Fireball as single target since there is only one other choice for single target that does any damage and that is Power Siphon:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAP0CcQSzBVsHYwj0DH0OSBB_EZYSaRRNFLAWbxa_FxwXUBmFGjgabCQ8JKomlSepKU826TowOtg74UbXSTtJUUwtTdhQMFBCVUtVxlcrWm1dxl3yXypgbWHiY0NnvW0ZbXtwUnDVcXlyfnNTdFV5A3zOfll_xoFvgh6Cm4V9h9uIQot6i4yMNox2j0aQVZuhnaOdrp48ogCiLqcIpyunXKeErJi1BLiTwFHAVMHFwfPGns9l0NDa3dsL217d8-Fz4vfjauOE5CLr5Ow47SDub_Af8NnyHfPq99f8qw==

Gem set up:

Arc > Chain > Lightning Penetration > Reduced Mana (have to even with 200% mana regen)

For the 4th I have tried POC (worthless until crits are taken and massive mana), Increased Crits (same issue as POC), and well that is it for any realistic choices since it works with almost no support gems.

I do 168 DPS with chain and only hit 5 targets? Hell, it could chain 10 times and still be completely ineffective. I even have grouping partners complain about my DPS. This skill is out classed by every other multi-target spell (as well as attack skills) by at least 3-5 times DPS and utility wise.

My character is twinked out too which makes the stats being so bad even worse. I can't imagine being a new person to the game picking this skill and leveling to 50+. What a bummer that would be.

(and yes I even tried dual wand + power siphon)



Level 56 I get even better gear, but none of it will effect the DPS.

Major issues and flaws stated as succinctly as possible:

1. Incredibly low DPS.

2. Incredibly high mana cost.

3. Extremely low support gem combinations possible.

4. Extremely low effectiveness in dealing damage to groups, even if the damage was doubled, or tripled.

5. No utility other than putting on a totem to proc Elemental Equilibirium and even then I have no clue why anyone would use it over a multitude of other skills that would be better for such a thing.

6. Does not benefit from any projectile nodes or support gems.

7. Shoots barrels, crates, you name it instead of monsters quite a bit; even with a screen full of mobs. This is a major DPS loss on a skill that only chains 4 time with a chain gem and already has probably the lowest DPS of any skill.

8. The only gem it works with (chain) brings it damage to 100% reduction.

9. Even with 200% mana regen on a twinked a character you cannot shoot it quick enough to make shock stacking effective or do enough damage to make shock stacking effective.

10. Shoots where you point, including the ground but not limited to, where as projectiles such as bow skills simply fly in the direction rather than shoot into the ground with a large possibility of hitting mobs.

11. Sporadic damage.

12. Sporadic targeting.

13. Limited distance based on screen size. Cannot shoot monsters off-screen unless it chains to them.

14. You have two options to use with this skill for a single target which if Fireball that does lackluster damage (Fireball > Faster Projectiles > Faster Casting > POC > INC Burn DMG +high crit node tmeplate)and power siphon which does not allow a workable template skill point wise imo although I will try it if arc is ever fixed.

Power Siphon option:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAP0CcQSzBVsHYwj0DH0OSBB_EZYUTRSwFm8WvxmFGdcaOBpsJDwkqiaVJ6kpTy0fMok26TowOtg74T9zRtdJO0lRTLNN2FAwUEJVS1XGVytX4lptXcZd8l8qYG1h4mNDZ71tGW17cFJw1XJ-c1N0VXfleM55A3zOf8aBb4IegpuFfYfbiEKIa4t6i4yMNox2j0aQVZuhnaOdrp48ogCiLqcIpyunXKeErJi1BLiTwFTBxcHzxp7PZdDQ2wvbXt3z4XPi9-Nq44TkIuvk7DjtIO5v8B_w2fId8-r31_yr

"

Russell wrote:

Im sure it would make you all ec-static. Iv heard word of a few times so it may be coming soonish... hopefully.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/352057/filter-account-type/staff

I truly hope before we get another AOE like lightning skill that the current ones are fixed and a single target is added.

My recommendations for possible fixes:

1. Completely remove the damage reduction from the gem.

2. Increase cast speed.

3. Cut the mana cost in half.

4. Allow it to chain 5-10 times depending on the changes to the values above.

Yup, it is really that bad in my opinion. I have 2 70+ characters, several 53+, and a few 40+. I am not new I have a pretty good grasp of the games mechanics. This skill needs a major overhaul or to be scrapped entirely so new people do not pick it and get frustrated on their first character and quit. I would take it out of the game until fixed.

P.S.

Please add a single target lightning damage skill or convert this to one, with the addition of piety's lightning ball AoE thing that is rumored to be coming soon...

That's a terrible build for the ARC. To get higher DPS and actually make yourself a little relevant on maps and such you need cast speed and lots of it; http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgUAAuMFWwdjB6URUBGWFVAW8xpsHNwd2R8CJjwnqSlPLJwtHy-dMQE1gDbFOtg74UNURtdI50myTdhPv1crWBtdxmBtZk9nvWvbbRlzU3YReqp9U35Zfq9_xoFJgpuIuouMjHaNGY5kj0aboZ2jna6io6cIpyuyOLJ1toa2-riTu9bAVMG0wcXB88NtzLfQ0NV11YHYJNrd3Yzd8-AS4XPi9-Qi5Ozmgevu7BjsOO0g7m_yzvem_Ks=

Gear;

Even then this skill is very underpowered and is always overshadowed by other skills regardless of the element, rendering it useless.
I can live with high mana cost, but the critical and shock chance has to be increased, it needs a stable DPS without decrease when it chains and as everyone said gem support without ridiculous damage reduction.

I am probably in those 1-2% of players that still use this skill for god knows what reason.

Obviously cast speed would greatly enhance DPS, but not with the high mana cost...I wear the Doedre's to kill the cast speed because of the mana cost (and were not even talking 5 and 6 link here...) and was going to wait till I had a 5 link for faster castings. Even using faster castings and taking away the Doedre's the DPS is ridiculous pathetic. I tried this more than one way with quite a few regrets for testing a skill that was already blatantly inept since it is beta and this is what we are here for.

I took the high mana regen based on the basic math I did with support gems and not support gems. I'd love to go high cast speed and tried the same gaunts you wear with faster casting, but the math says either way you do it the skill sucks and so did hands on experience. /shrug Your DPS sucks too, I don't think your build is terrible or mine but I will say the skill is ridiculous DPS wise no matter the direction you take.

"

johnce6 wrote:

Obviously cast speed would greatly enhance DPS, but not with the high mana cost...I wear the Doedre's to kill the cast speed because of the mana cost (and were not even talking 5 and 6 link here...) and was going to wait till I had a 5 link for faster castings. Even using faster castings and taking away the Doedre's the DPS is ridiculous pathetic. I tried this more than one way with quite a few regrets for testing a skill that was already blatantly inept since it is beta and this is what we are here for.

I took the high mana regen based on the basic math I did with support gems and not support gems. I'd love to go high cast speed and tried the same gaunts you wear with faster casting, but the math says either way you do it the skill sucks and so did hands on experience. /shrug Your DPS sucks too, I don't think your build is terrible or mine but I will say the skill is ridiculous DPS wise no matter the direction you take.

Well at least 99% here agree that this spell needs major changes. Thanks for your efforts and spending on this useless spell just to prove that there's a huge problem.

I won't be playing this game until they update the arc, It's just so generic using what everyone is using (f-pulse,spark), I hoped that this arc would be something unique and useful and what a waste of time that was lol. No variety with casters if you ask me, players are forced to use the same crap since the closed beta, f-pulse ruled everything there and it keeps ruling everything here.

Well, on my very expensive now currently Righteous Fire build, Ethereal Knives that's level 16 on Nycta's Lantern unique does more damage than Level 18 Arc on same character that's specced for lightning.

Also Elemental Proliferation doesn't procedure on chained enemies making more doubtful that this skill works properly with other supports like Quantity and Rarity on chained attacks as I've felt for a long time.

This what would be the ideal set up:
Arc > Faster Casting > Elemental Proliferation > Lightning Penetration > Culling Strike.
Even tho' Proliferation and Culling Strike doesn't work right.

Tool tip DPS close to 3k damage approx, feels like 70-7000 damage with shocks/other Arc totem going. Too bad Zombies do more damage than me and the mana cost to cast fast enough to deal on average mediocre damage is heinous. Without RF, I would be doing half that.

The changes I'd like to see be made are:



1). Change the Chain support Gem from "50% less damage" to "50% less projectile damage". Arc is the only non-projectile spell chain affects, so this would effectively be the same as removing chain's 50% damage penalty for Arc- which is fine being that +2 chain jumps is basically a +67% increase in Arc's damage, compared to the +100%, potentially hitting the same target more then once most projectile spells get(not to mention Arc also doesn't benefit from the synergy between CHain AND GMP/LMP).


2). Reduce Arc's Cast time to .45 sec and it's mana cost by 50%. When it comes down to it, arc's effect really isn't any better thenfireball- arc may be more reliable AoE and faster, but fireball has better support gem options(projectile gems&concentrated effect), better crit chance,and better mana efficiency. Both gems have comparable average base damage(though Arc's is a bit higher), so there's nothing to justify the 50% damage effectiveness it currently suffers from. I favour boosting cast speed & reducing mana over rememoving the damage effectiveness as this change will make Arc better for reliably building shock charges. That said, boosting the damage effectiveness to 80-85% would work just as well


With those 2 changes I think Arc would be a competitive choice. Right now it's hamstrung chiefly by it's obscenely low damage effectiveness and lack of any "big swing" gems(the sort that give a 70%+ multiplicative increase to total damage output like conc effect or GMP or chain for projectile spells).




It could also be interesting to drop Arc's Crit chance straight to 0%, but give it larger bonuses to shock chance/shock duration, making it the defacto "non-crit shock stacker" in the game, and further differentiating it's build role from spark. That said I don't think this is essential, it could just be nice for build diversity.

Another skill let down for me. I had high hopes for this at low levels, but at higher levels it sucks.
Mana cost to high. Damage meh and single target dps is a laugh. Cast speed to slow.
Another of the vast skill that are that awful. Guess I'll just play my freeze pulse witch or go give Neverwinter MMO a try.

I'm running an Arc-based Marauder right now, focusing on pure damage output rather than cast speed. This isn't an argument for DPS, but for raw damage. The key to Chain Lightning in Diablo 2 was its ability to spike, and Arc just doesn't have that, at least not to a point that makes it more attractive than a chained/lmp etc fireball.

I've got Doedre's Tenure, a craptonne of strength+Iron Will and NO CHAIN. Chain quite honestly reduces the already pathetic damage to virtually nothing.

So sure, my cast speed is really low and thus the DPS is negligible, but in practice it works...sort of. At Arc level 8 and with tenure+iron will, I deal 12-231 damage. On paper that should blow Fireball out of the water but then you have to consider how easy it is to MP fireball and make all three/five hit the same target.

I won't even bring up Lightning Arrow or Spark. Others have done that just fine.

This needs a significant damage buff. It's that simple. I've sacrificed all casting speed just to see how strong I can make it and the results are really disappointing.

At character level 38, Fireball is level 10 and deals 70-105 unmodified damage, giving an average damage of about 85-90. Which is, I should mention, AoE damage.

At character level 40, my Arc is level 8 and deals (after damage effectiveness) unmodified 9-173 damage, giving an average damage of about 82. This is NOT AoE damage but can bounce a few times. Whoop-de-doo.

Even if you remove the damage effectiveness things aren't much better. This 'damage effectiveness' mechanic was clumsy to begin with and I see no point for it here. Without it, a level 8 Arc would be 11-212 before modification. That's at character level 40. Thus its average damage WOULD be roughly 100. Still not that much higher than a fireball, which is inherently AoE and much easier to support.




...You've missed the idea behind 'lightning' on this one, guys. You've got half right: the minimum should very low. But the maximum needs to be MUCH higher.

Arc is horrible to use as a burst or spike damage ability. The average damage is too low and you have to use its innate chance to shock to be able to do average damage, so faster casting to apply shock stacks is the priority over raw damage.

Funny how you mentioned Lightning Arrow, Charan. If Arc didn't have any chance to shock I'd bet GGG would make it deal more damage considering the issues that LA had, even tho' LA is AoE and Arc really isn't.

The Arc character I have was specifically made to maximise damage thro' any reason means and have survivability, so I got Shavronne's Wrappings and went Righteous Fire. Level 79 and average sub 3k damage is really bad. For a support skill it's sort of ok - you have to make it do enough damage to get a shock stack. I ended up using minions for a long time so they do more damage and their explosion does more damage. Only 2 minion nodes, better than any damage I do even tho' I get the majority of last hits by cast speed. The build itself is ok, Arc just sucks that I sometimes get blown out because I can't kill things fast enough and have to run away and cry in a corner somewhere. Decent armour, slightly below ES I want (sub 6k or something worse but using garbage shoes and gloves for IIR/IIQ). I probably would think about making a crit build but the 4% multiplier makes it not worth while.

I just don't wanna use Freezing Pulse, man.