Reave

ya my feedback after playing around with it for a bit is that its nice, but if movement skills like whirling blades, warp etc wouldnt drop its cooldown it would be a lot more fun. Right now I can run a little to get in range of the next pack and keep reaving, but I cant whirling blades to that point which is my natural tendency when using a similar setup like double strike melee splash.

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raics wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

And again with your example, comparing the AOE of a single target ability vs the aoe of an ability that was actually designed to do aoe damage, the single target ability wins by a large margin for a number of reasons, the least of which is the fact that you have to attack 8 times before you can reach that aoe, and you can't stop to cast a curse, a buff, or a movement ability with reave while you are free to do so with the single target ability. I'm not sure how you think this is even comparable and the sad part is one of these is DESIGNED to be aoe.

And that's all saying nothing about the huge MASSIVE design issues this ability has, what with expecting daggers and claws users to be using a shield with this ability which is ridiculous.

Keep in mind the damage of Dual Strike is a bit broken, it more than doubles your normal attack damage, that's the skill that needs redesign. I've rarely seen games that double your damage output if dual-wielding, you usually have some kind of penalties and restrictions. Just remember D&D rules, you needed three perks to make it work and even then you had 10% reduced chance to hit with both weapons if offhand weapon is light, 20% if heavy, also you needed high dexterity score to get required perks and it only granted two extra attacks per round compared to 3 or 4 you get normally.

Mentioning dual-wielding, I think you have some hard misconceptions about it. First of all, it's useless in mass open battle, you can't block nearly as good as with a shield and you have no range advantage of 2h weapons or spears. Dual-wielding is a modern fairytale that hasn't seen much usage through history except seldom in duels or small-scale combat. Truth be told, even styles that teach dual weapons treat is as a gimmick, used to show skill and training level then as a tool for actual combat. And even those that teach it seriously use offhand weapon mostly for parrying, attacking with it requires an extremely talented and almost ambidextrous individuals and those are extremely rare.

You're making some valid points from a balance perspective, but I'm all for rebalancing the skill once the changes are made. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that they designed a dual wield class that uses daggers and claws, then made dual wielding not count for the ability it was designed to use. I don't see how anyone can say this makes sense.
If they have to make some balancing/dps changes to the ability, then i think that's what needs to be done. This shit makes ZERO sense the way it is designed right now.

And yes, I realize a weapon and a shield would be the more intelligent way to do things irl, but then you wouldn't be plowing through hordes of monsters irl either. It's a dungeon crawler/action rpg game. And what you're saying doesn't make any sense to begin with because there are already classes that don't use a shield and perform very well, marauders and duelists.

I just want the ability that was designed to go to the dual daggers/dual claws class to be useable with dual daggers and dual claws. I don't think that's asking a lot nor do I think there's any valid explanation why it wasn't designed that way to begin with. This ability's design is ridiculous. Allow it to be used with 2 weapons then balance it accordingly.

Unless there is a change ill be using a shield. Especially since its a dps loss if using a weaker off hand weapon.

After using it for a bit I think the skill is pretty well balanced, but the biggest complaint I have is that sometimes you'll carry 8 charges from a pack that you've just killed to another pack, you'll get to the other pack and hit with the 8 charges, but by the time they've actually landed the charges expire. Perhaps the charges should jump back up to 8 if you land a hit with an 8 charge hit, even if the timer expires? I don't know. It just doesn't feel right as it currently sits.

Suggestion for reave charge implementation that fits around its concept of 'designed to synergise with players building around attack speed, area of effect bonuses and on-hit effects'

Make charges disappear one at a time over time
Make changes disappear faster the more charges there are.

Example


What this does:
Easier to hold a (few) charges as you move between mobs

High charges maintained only during combat

You can remove the 8 charge hardcap, there will be a softcap due to the diminishing charge duration
- People can now stack attack speed to see how high they can stack charges for. Can't really be abused since the high charges will all disappear one you stop attacking for even a second.

You can remove the 'charges disappear after another skill is used' idea. People trying to alternate attacks will have to deal with lower charge counts than someone using reave only.

noticed a few things:
1) counter ends the moment mp hits 0
2) counter usually ends the moment a flask is used, sure exception is when holding the button for the skill (and can still hit foes).
3) full counter seem to end slower than fewer
4) when full counter, character runs up to targeted foe as if only 1 counter existed

If your mana hits 0 and you do an auto attack, that counts as using another skill.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

You're making some valid points from a balance perspective, but I'm all for rebalancing the skill once the changes are made. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that they designed a dual wield class that uses daggers and claws, then made dual wielding not count for the ability it was designed to use. I don't see how anyone can say this makes sense.
If they have to make some balancing/dps changes to the ability, then i think that's what needs to be done. This shit makes ZERO sense the way it is designed right now.

And yes, I realize a weapon and a shield would be the more intelligent way to do things irl, but then you wouldn't be plowing through hordes of monsters irl either. It's a dungeon crawler/action rpg game. And what you're saying doesn't make any sense to begin with because there are already classes that don't use a shield and perform very well, marauders and duelists.

I just want the ability that was designed to go to the dual daggers/dual claws class to be useable with dual daggers and dual claws. I don't think that's asking a lot nor do I think there's any valid explanation why it wasn't designed that way to begin with. This ability's design is ridiculous. Allow it to be used with 2 weapons then balance it accordingly.

Yeah, the whole dual-wield concept needs rebalancing, in any case scrap dual strike and make all melee skills hit with both weapons or make it none. Otherwise no point to use anything but skills that do. And I don't really see why they couldn't, the only thing needed are a few animations for all classes. Both weapons would hit but at 30% damage penalty.

- Double strike - this one would need a special animation that makes it look like it hits once with both of the weapons in the space of single attack, some type of cross-slash or something, at 85% effectiveness each instead of 70.
- Heavy strike, Glacial, Infernal, Dominating, Flicker, Puncture and Elemental hit - might use some kind of simultaneous diagonal swing over the shoulders with both weapons, similar to Resonance Edge from Last Remnant if anyone played the game.
- Ground slam - overhand swing with both weapons
- Cleave, Reave, could use a sideswipe like now or a some kind of a scissor motion (cool but impractical).
- Frenzy and Viper could still alternate as they aren't really used for raw damage output, besides we might forget how normal attack animation looks like if we don't see it now and then.

OFF:
Speaking of Last Remnant, it's a very underrated game, the initial release on consoles was an obviously rushed product but PC version was awesome. Complete difficulty rebalance that actually made it a challenge, many features that were absent from xbox, new content... a prime example how to fix a bad game making it epic, also how to make a quality console port.
Probably among my top ten games of all times.

Ive been testing the skill on a pretty lowlevel shadow, about 20-25.

The shadow had between 91%-94% hitchance and 2 atk/s, dagger right hand, fist left hand. Most testing done in the western forest area.

I did like the idea of it as a dagger/fist aoe, but my problem with the skill is when compared to [insert singletarget melee skill] + melee splash and its not about the damage!

It just feels like it contributes a lot more to desyncing and as far as i could see it also seemed to have a lot lower hitrate than it should have, because i felt like i had more than 1/10 of my attacks miss on lower level enemies (no recorded numbers), which made it somewhat annoying to use.

Missrate also seemed to be worse if i did not have a target within the normal melee range (even though mobs were inside the aoe range with stacks).

For me the feel of the skill is what is most important, a skill can be as good as it wants to, but if i dont like the feel of it, its just going to be replaced.

type /oos mid fight and youll see why you 'miss' so often