PoE2 has very few viable builds, why are patch notes nothing but nerfs?

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Frozendare#3622 wrote:

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Lore#3772 wrote:

You responded to the sentences of the argument that were literally least important and voided them of context as well. That’s cute, you went out of your way to do that for me :,) means I’m making a lot of valid points.

You are confused and have it backwards. I have actually engaged with what you say and explained my perspective. On other hand you continue to make a strawman and youre not directly engaging with what I or other people have said.
The stuff i ignored are not relevant because youre just responding and arguing against some strawman and position nobody has argued.

So no, those points aren't "valid".

Try showing you actually understand the points I'm making and be free to disagree, but youre not even doing that.

While youre talking about IQs and spiderwebs or whatever, im making very clear positions.

And lastly, how can you be suggesting you care about "build diversity" when you are defending a meta of an entire group using the exact same items, with the exact same support gems providing exact same buffs?

True build diversity in your group play will come when each party member has to bring entirely different set of buffs and have different uniques and support gems. They should continue balancing until that happens.

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And can’t figure out why they can’t slap content as a team anymore. It’s gonna be hilarious. And if they can slap content as a team it literally means minions are over powered.

The game is balanced around solo play and barely anyone play like this, but have you considered that the problem is not the nerfs to unintended stacking interactions, but group scaling/balanced on the monster side? Your implication is that monster HP is scaling too high, so maybe they should look at that.

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I wish more people would try to answer the riddle in my tag

that's literally just a jujutsu kaisen reference.

That’s heaven and earth bud. But people make mistakes all the time. Reading is hard.

So rather than have a bunch of different weird group compositions exist as the meta you’d rather have basically 50% of the group be mandatory slots. Weird, prior to this change the only mandatory slot was rarity realistically.

So we went from 1/6 to 3/6 being defined as A necessity for non garbage farming rates.

And tbh once the most cracked dps clearspeed build is found it’ll just be the other 6/6 mandatory with mandatory items.

I went over this once but you didn’t listen.

It’s okay, you are clearly dedicated in not understanding and I’m not able to truly communicate it to you. But in about 4 weeks MAX you’ll understand.

Enjoy the 5 months after.

Whatever the “meta” for group clearing is, it’s gonna be leaps and bounds ahead.

Previously it was not.

Though I guess my argument does hinge on other group players with high iq not just going solo over the changes. Which is a trap but it is what it is. If you can get a negative rarity solo build functioning in end game it’s worth.

Otherwise whatever group meta is will be smoking solo speeds for currency gained.

The only weapon solo players have is a gimped negative rarity build that sacrifices rings. And almost 100% of them would be better off in 2 person group farming as the negative rarity bot and splitting profit.

We just went through a whole season of training people to pick up other peoples better than trash they can’t hold from temple.

The only roll on grips that was consequential in my opinion was cdr and the only reason allies scaling got hit was so solo minion players could rise up in achieved power.

The cdr enabling groups to spam teleport at highest rates was the movement side of clearing speed problem. Everything else didn’t have as much potential imo. You are limited to hits per second anyway.

But those groups who could spam teleport faster than anyone else also had to solve for damage that would work under those conditions. And defenses. And the negative presence radius on each character. They also had like no light radius just by the way so you are always teleporting into the unknown?

Acting like it was damn I got 3 grips I go zoom now is wild.

To achieve legacy temporalis levels you needed to assemble the literal 6 prime ritualist anvengers all with decked out insane rolls. Otherwise your teleporting into death.

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Lore#3772 wrote:

That’s heaven and earth bud. But people make mistakes all the time. Reading is hard.

Changing a word doesnt stop it from being a reference, or did you try to pass it off as an original idea?

Btw do you have any footage of your group gameplay? Just curious if youre even playing with real people.

What you still havent acknowledged in this whole thread is that:
1) Game is balanced primarily for solo players
2)Vast majority of players are solo players(95-99%)
3)group play isnt important.

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The only weapon solo players have is a gimped negative rarity build that sacrifices rings. And almost 100% of them would be better off in 2 person group farming as the negative rarity bot and splitting profit.

So youre saying the balance is off and group play is favoured too much still?

GGG has difficulty balancing solo play, group play seems to be low on priority. I think it exists primarily for playing with friends, couch coop. Not for it to be some meta strategy to farm crap, it doesnt even need to be viable for that. The game has performance issues playing alone, let alone playing with others. Poe1 was bad coop ARPG, and i'd argue poe2 isnt much better.

I think the balance is not in a good state if people play in groups only because they are incentivized by increased amount of loot. Its not balanced and should be balanced.

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To achieve legacy temporalis levels you needed to assemble the literal 6 prime ritualist anvengers all with decked out insane rolls.

None of what youre describing belongs in a modern ARPG, its not cool, that's a different game entirely. Sounds like some korean mmo.

Guide gamer take

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Frozendare#3622 wrote:

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Lore#3772 wrote:

That’s heaven and earth bud. But people make mistakes all the time. Reading is hard.

Changing a word doesnt stop it from being a reference, or did you try to pass it off as an original idea?

Btw do you have any footage of your group gameplay? Just curious if youre even playing with real people.

What you still havent acknowledged in this whole thread is that:
1) Game is balanced primarily for solo players
2)Vast majority of players are solo players(95-99%)
3)group play isnt important.

"

The only weapon solo players have is a gimped negative rarity build that sacrifices rings. And almost 100% of them would be better off in 2 person group farming as the negative rarity bot and splitting profit.

So youre saying the balance is off and group play is favoured too much still?

GGG has difficulty balancing solo play, group play seems to be low on priority. I think it exists primarily for playing with friends, couch coop. Not for it to be some meta strategy to farm crap, it doesnt even need to be viable for that. The game has performance issues playing alone, let alone playing with others. Poe1 was bad coop ARPG, and i'd argue poe2 isnt much better.

I think the balance is not in a good state if people play in groups only because they are incentivized by increased amount of loot. Its not balanced and should be balanced.

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To achieve legacy temporalis levels you needed to assemble the literal 6 prime ritualist anvengers all with decked out insane rolls.

None of what youre describing belongs in a modern ARPG, its not cool, that's a different game entirely. Sounds like some korean mmo.

“In heaven above and on earth below, I alone am the World-Honored One"—Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha) at the moment of his birth, when he took seven steps and pointed to the sky and the earth.

Anyway now that you learned that they ripped it from one of the oldest religious beliefs gain some humility.

The ego seeks to be seen.

The awakened seeks to understand.

Long before your anime enlightenment there was another form.

My riddle still stands. The reason it still stands is I can calculate for almost everyone’s inability to rationalize.

I apologize for any text as I am not trying to insult anyone realistically. I am just making the point loud and clear. These were the craziest nerfs in the history of either game until I’m shown otherwise.

If you can show me the numbers and the items that were comparably nerfed I will legitimately concede my point and retire from it.

But remember, this nerf affected groups. Not just single players. So it had a magnified effect overall.

The effect of this single patch note is so dense days later even I am still calculating its ramifications. And that’s saying something.

Realistically though I haven’t even given this that much in depth thought only a few hours a day maybe 8 total hours.

I don’t think such a dynamic change has ever happened in aarpg history in terms of shift of direction it’s a wild scope of a nerf people don’t appreciate because it doesn’t effect how they play the game. And unfortunately the thing about it is it reduced the way to approach the game for average players and did empower the meta.

Whatever that meta composition is, it’s only stronger from this not weaker.

Whatever the difference between tier 0 group comp and tier 1 group comp isn’t gonna really be as fine a line as it used to be. But we shall see. The scope of how the nerf has to be applied is the problem. The reasoning for applying this nerf is to bring single player minion damage up in end game. The trap is that obviously they are gonna be either overpowered or underpowered relative to the meta anyway.

Basically applying the most catastrophic nerf in history of either game for group diversity to bring up the power of single player minions which probably does make up a fair majority of player base.

So sacrifice diversity at the top to make a probable double digit % of the player base more happy with minion performance single player.

Seems like a good trade.

There’s a reason you incentivize group play but I guess that’s going over everyone’s heads.

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Lore#3772 wrote:

Anyway now that you learned that they ripped it from one of the oldest religious beliefs gain some humility.

You still ripped it off from JJK though 🤣
The only way i'd believe otherwise if your tag was written before it was in JJK.

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My riddle still stands. The reason it still stands is I can calculate for almost everyone’s inability to rationalize.

We're waiting for you to calculate the self-evident fact that hardcore ultra niche group play doesnt matter, it doesnt matter you got nerfed, the balance in endgame groups doesnt matter and it wouldnt matter if all of you quit. (you wont) It might be a good thing for the economy though.

Do you actually have examples to use of good gameplay in group setting? I think Diablo 3 reaper of souls had good group play, wow has good group play. Elden Ring:Nightreign is decent group play.

Im not even sure if you play with real people, perhaps youre playing with actual bots or multiboxing, or playing to sell to RMTers.

Instead of puffing yourself up and trying to discredit others, try to actually show the value in the gameplay youre trying to defend. Show some footage, some receipts. Maybe if you show me i'll go "wow that's so cool, i want to do that".

Do you think GGG could advertise the game by showing footage of your gameplay?
How would you feel if item rarity on gear was removed or if it didnt affect currency?
Please answer me.

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Frozendare#3622 wrote:

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Lore#3772 wrote:

Anyway now that you learned that they ripped it from one of the oldest religious beliefs gain some humility.

You still ripped it off from JJK though 🤣
The only way i'd believe otherwise if your tag was written before it was in JJK.

"

My riddle still stands. The reason it still stands is I can calculate for almost everyone’s inability to rationalize.

We're waiting for you to calculate the self-evident fact that hardcore ultra niche group play doesnt matter, it doesnt matter you got nerfed, the balance in endgame groups doesnt matter and it wouldnt matter if all of you quit. (you wont) It might be a good thing for the economy though.

Do you actually have examples to use of good gameplay in group setting? I think Diablo 3 reaper of souls had good group play, wow has good group play. Elden Ring:Nightreign is decent group play.

Im not even sure if you play with real people, perhaps youre playing with actual bots or multiboxing, or playing to sell to RMTers.

Instead of puffing yourself up and trying to discredit others, try to actually show the value in the gameplay youre trying to defend. Show some footage, some receipts. Maybe if you show me i'll go "wow that's so cool, i want to do that".

Do you think GGG could advertise the game by showing footage of your gameplay?
How would you feel if item rarity on gear was removed or if it didnt affect currency?
Please answer me.

lol I been asking that people that riddle long enough someone should know it by now. But it must be too complex in its root for people to rationalize. (I bet 100% of you won’t see what I did with that last sentence) is that a hint? Probably not since it’s a riddle of equal intellectual requirements

Also it doesn’t really matter who inspired it, if you wanna know the truth the actual gods fighting humans anime when Buddha said it is what inspired me, before that I didn’t actually know the story of being born and pointing to the sky and earth and saying this is my domain essentially. Which added a poetic element to when in the anime he says it as it essentially indicates his desire to fight for humanity.

I wrote it first. Which means I rationalized it first. Have a good day splitting hairs.

I have a track record for writing masterpieces people can’t seem to understand. And for decoding other people’s masterpieces people can’t seem to understand. But that certainly isn’t an indication of an ability to rationalize far beyond the normal person.

Also edited the riddle to add a comma today, I don’t think it’s necessary myself but someone told me it might help to separate those for people who struggle without it.

It’s been there long enough now.

And do you yet understand the man who could rationalize such a thing.

I don’t need to be seen. I don’t mind being heard. I won’t be mocked or have the things I say removed from context and design of message. I am particular in that disrespects only real solution is the truth piled onto it. I try my best not even to meet you with disrespect.

Should minion power have come up in power? Yes

Did allies scaling have to get nerfed for that to happen? Yes it did

Did allies scaling have to get turned into the state it’s now in? Not a shot captain.

Not a shot. But at this point any response will just not directly respond to the actual impacted loss and gloss it over with “it’s good for single player minions players tho bro”

Sure until they get to end game an get told sorry coach our hyper min max group clear don’t deal with your kind.

Same as rarity ritualist, same as support ritualist, same as tactician (I guess this is possible now nightfall can teleport), same as wherever ends up being most lit dps to clear speed for other slots.

Groups and anyone assembling them have overall less diversity, landmines in composition, you can’t actually see other players builds and some cosmetics might now show the sceptre a way you’ll notice.

It’s gonna be an absolute nightmare.

Because most the players are going in BLIND. Half blind with the expectation those stats are still of real value or those builds (minion and support) aren’t gonna be fighting for slots in end game group play.

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Frozendare#3622 wrote:

Please answer me.

So I've used my doctorate from Engineering Mathematics and a little help from wolframalpha Computational Intelligence. And the conclusion of my advanced calculations is that you are wrong and there is simply 0% chance for something to be be as engaging, diverse and important for the community as running 5 support builds using the exactly same gear, that just walk behind your damage carry experiencing gameplay that is less active than being NPC companion.

The damage carry: Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds -Albert Einstein 6.7.1984 shortly after creating the first dark matter reactor in the world.

I hope that you will be able to understand the 500IQ riddle hidden in this post. For it is one of many of my well crated masterpieces. I will not be able to reply to this thread again for I'm getting us to the Mars with my huge brain.

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CAKE#4700 wrote:

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Frozendare#3622 wrote:

Please answer me.

So I've used my doctorate from Engineering Mathematics and a little help from wolframalpha Computational Intelligence. And the conclusion of my advanced calculations is that you are wrong and there is simply 0% chance for something to be be as engaging, diverse and important for the community as running 5 support builds using the exactly same gear, that just walk behind your damage carry experiencing gameplay that is less active than being NPC companion.

The damage carry: Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds -Albert Einstein 6.7.1984 shortly after creating the first dark matter reactor in the world.

I hope that you will be able to understand the 500IQ riddle hidden in this post. For it is one of many of my well crated masterpieces. I will not be able to reply to this thread again for I'm getting us to the Mars with my huge brain.

There were ways to do that without smoking the entire modifier group and builds they enabled.

Being able to have 2 scaled allies users in a party is better than 1. 1 creates such a dynamic limit, and then you realize that 1/6 limit is shared between minion builds and support builds.

At least if you could get scaled stats from 2 players compositions could still be interesting to a degree. But at 1 player you hard lock certain aspects of end game progression as a group.

The irony that you responded to least important part of my comment and then returned to responding to some strawman and replying to imaginary arguments, and not to any questions or statements i made directly.

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Did allies scaling have to get turned into the state it’s now in? Not a shot captain.

And what state it is in? Are players in groups now too weak? What's the problem? Who does it hurt? Dont talk about abstract comparisons in some numbers, describe whats actually happening in practice.

And answer the actual questions i gave you in my previous post, please.

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Frozendare#3622 wrote:

Instead of puffing yourself up and trying to discredit others, try to actually show the value in the gameplay youre trying to defend. Show some footage, some receipts. Maybe if you show me i'll go "wow that's so cool, i want to do that".

Do you think GGG could advertise the game by showing footage of your gameplay?
How would you feel if item rarity on gear was removed or if it didnt affect currency?
Please answer me.

And i'd prefer that if you reply, make a single thought out response instead of continuously editing your post with more rambling and having an imaginary conversation.

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Frozendare#3622 wrote:

The irony that you responded to least important part of my comment and then returned to responding to some strawman and replying to imaginary arguments, and not to any questions or statements i made directly.

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Did allies scaling have to get turned into the state it’s now in? Not a shot captain.

And what state it is in? Are players in groups now too weak? What's the problem? Who does it hurt? Dont talk about abstract comparisons in some numbers, describe whats actually happening in practice.

And answer the actual questions i gave you in my previous post, please.

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Frozendare#3622 wrote:

Instead of puffing yourself up and trying to discredit others, try to actually show the value in the gameplay youre trying to defend. Show some footage, some receipts. Maybe if you show me i'll go "wow that's so cool, i want to do that".

Do you think GGG could advertise the game by showing footage of your gameplay?
How would you feel if item rarity on gear was removed or if it didnt affect currency?
Please answer me.

And i'd prefer that if you reply, make a single thought out response instead of continuously editing your post with more rambling and having an imaginary conversation.

I’m gonna be honest with you after your first post was 3 heavily redacted sentences of mine then like 3 sentences under them edited later to huge response, I don’t even read what you write. I glance. When the difference is too vast there’s not much to do but find the obvious flaws.

Where’s your obvious flaws I’ve been riddling them out for days. As it pertains to the actual discussion. I have named the intentions without being told. I solved multiple angles of the depth of impact. Found the only plausible end conclusions. What have you actually done but tell me it’s nbd? Don’t worry I’ll wait.

The catastrophe of the game is either fluffball weak or correctly difficult I’m actually leaning towards fluffball weak being the actual direction. If in .5 difficulty is correctly scaled in end game I’ll come back and apologize. But until then na son. You could make the best aarpg PvP ever conceived easier than you are balancing this end game.

Until I’m proven wrong here we stand. The result of this Change can only lead to an underpowered enemy power in the end game or an over powered enemy power in the end game.

Any real aarpg player knows which is correct, I shouldn’t even have to say it. Call it a call to whatever you want, if a game is a cupcake and a time sink, you are playing cupcake simulator.

It’ll take a while for that one to hit, but I suspect that might be one of my better written pieces ^

If only asmongold would cover my posts in some in depth long format video, maybe people would learn. But since it’s words and not like people talking or moving pictures. Doubt.

Sincerely ~Moosiah 🐄

P.S. if enemy power is correctly overturned that leads up to the hyper min maxed toxic party required exactly this or loss of function is immense.

There really is no good end conclusion. Either it ends up being way to easy to cheese, or it’s so difficult only select compositions can do it effectively and one of them
Is going to make the others look like nothing burger.

Logic meet reason meet rationalization.