Why Does Every Suggestion Turn Into Drama?

I realy dont undrestand the way some discusions unfold here

Whenever someone shares a sugestion or gives feedback the reaction can get oddly defensive and like its a personal critisizm rather than just a conversation about a game

this is still Path of Exile 2 in early acess and the whole point of this stage is to talk about what works and what doesnt and what could be imrpoved!

Not every idea will be good and not everyone has to agree but treating every suggestions as something that needs to beshut down doesnt realy help anyone and it just makes discusion less usefull and less enjoyable

At the end of the day people are giving feedback because they care about the game and want it to be better and that shouldnt be something that creates tension it should be the reason conversations exist in the first plase

1. Because there is uncertainty level to everything that GGG does and some contradictions. That gives community tools to argue infinitely using same thing as an argument both ways.

Ex.
If argument can be supported by "vision" declared, it can also be taken down by the fact of GGG going flexible in some cases, even changing the vision. And the exact opposite scenario is true as well.
Basically there is evidence for both GGG sticking to vision and changing it.

2. Because people support their proposals with emotions, not facts.
3. Because a direction of such complex game is insanely complicated and every alignment is coming with some aftermath, that is often omitted by feedback-givers, which then get's added in comments - with a mixture of emotions and preference of people commenting.
4. Most arguments are just preference with no understanding tho.

I have no clue how is GGG able to get any value from vast majority of posts in here. It's just mumbling usually.

PS. When a post is comprehensive and insightful feedback, it usually doesn't get comments and is lost in the jungle.

"

Evergrey#7535 wrote:

1. Because there is uncertainty level to everything that GGG does and some contradictions. That gives community tools to argue infinitely using same thing as an argument both ways.

Ex.
If argument can be supported by "vision" declared, it can also be taken down by the fact of GGG going flexible in some cases, even changing the vision. And the exact opposite scenario is true as well.
Basically there is evidence for both GGG sticking to vision and changing it.

2. Because people support their proposals with emotions, not facts.
3. Because a direction of such complex game is insanely complicated and every alignment is coming with some aftermath, that is often omitted by feedback-givers, which then get's added in comments - with a mixture of emotions and preference of people commenting.
4. Most arguments are just preference with no understanding tho.

I have no clue how is GGG able to get any value from vast majority of posts in here. It's just mumbling usually.

PS. When a post is comprehensive and insightful feedback, it usually doesn't get comments and is lost in the jungle.

I get what you are saying sir and you areright

But what I wrote wasnt really about trying to figure out the reasons behind it. it was more of a bit of a frustration post

The things you mentioned do explain why discussions go in circles and why arguments keep repeating from both sides and I agree with that completly

What I still dont understand though is how quickly people drop any sense of rational discussion and turn to being overly defensive sometimes even aggressive or dismissive

Disagreeing is fine and even expected in a game this complex but the tone people choose to use is what feels off to me

Thats the part i cant really make sense of

"

arkanie#2558 wrote:

What I still dont understand though is how quickly people drop any sense of rational discussion and turn to being overly defensive sometimes even aggressive or dismissive

Disagreeing is fine and even expected in a game this complex but the tone people choose to use is what feels off to me

That's the part i cant really make sense of

People discredit others to elevate their own position/argument (mostly in their own eyes).
Dialogue capability has been reduced dramatically among the humanity since TV and Social Media is here.
Especially with recent years, where everyone - despite their age - is being spoonfed with political agenda. That is killing critical thinking and makes masses very polarized.

Some people also just bait/troll to make others mad for no apparent reason. Venting maybe...

GGG kinda want friction, so i guess it's better to get baited here than scammed in-game.

Honestly i do some light trolling/baiting just to get more eyeballs its the least energy intensive way to do it and its funny.
If it works dont fix it.

The community is divided and this is by design.

GGG has fractured the community with contradictory implementation versus their Vision TM. They have lied to reach the maximum audience early to get as much funding as they could to develop the game.

This leads to absurd heated debate.

Here's an easy example by a simple statement:

0.4 nerfed movement speed, it was much better in 0.3. This is easily verifiable and you would think anyone that plays the game understand that.

Of course, this is not what happens on this forum. Someone literally said in response to that statement that you actually move faster in 0.4 than you did in 0.3.

A lot of passive aggressive rage baiting threads/response are omnipresent on the forum because the spliced community has a vastly different vision for the game.

This obviously attract trolls that either have a real opinion, or that only engage here for the kick of making people mad, just like another social media platform.

They sometime get moderated but a lot of it isn't because they keep their trolling within the bounds of TOS and it becomes difficult for the moderators to do their job even when everyone can see the sheer trolling.

"

Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

GGG has fractured the community

In my opinion, community is actually fractured by itself. I know this is oversimplification of the topic but generally speaking community is divided between two groups.

Group 1 -> players that don`t want poe2 to become another d4.
Group 2 -> players that want poe2 become another d4 but refuse to play d4 and acknowledge things they propose actually ruined diablo franchise.

This has to create frictions.

"

SalamiHaze#9389 wrote:

"

Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

GGG has fractured the community

In my opinion, community is actually fractured by itself. I know this is oversimplification of the topic but generally speaking community is divided between two groups.

Group 1 -> players that don`t want poe2 to become another d4.
Group 2 -> players that want poe2 become another d4 but refuse to play d4 and acknowledge things they propose actually ruined diablo franchise.

This has to create frictions.

I find Group 3 to be even more insufferable. the proponents that POE2 should be the 1 shot clear screen garbo that is POE1. POE1 already exists, and its horrible, why would you want to make POE2 as POE1? Just go play it. Ask for a graphical update if you need to, but don't make POE2 gacha gameplay tier.

"

SalamiHaze#9389 wrote:

"

Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

GGG has fractured the community

In my opinion, community is actually fractured by itself

Perhaps on certain subjects, but as far as the main subject goes which is the slow paced vs zoom zoom, they are 100% the culprit

I'll just quote you on that on an earlier response you made to another post:

"

SalamiHaze#9389 wrote:

In my opinion GGG did this to themselves. They pushed things too far with 0.2. While i`m definitely on slow/meaningful combat side 0.2 was simply bad experience and now we are suffering.

Of course you're going to find a lot of feedback that are not classified under the main split such has "no exp loss on death" and "give me everything for free easily".

D4 and D3 were both trash a lot of players feel that way. The blueprints lies on D2 and not those.

Itemization in POE2 is very bad in comparison to D2, very unexciting. It wasn't the case with 0.1, it's degrading under the umbrella of balancing but this is again by design, just like movement speed that they buffed then re-nerfed.

It's always easier to make it political, bundling it as us vs them than addressing each issue, and this leads to a troll haven on this forum. GGG has created that dynamic, it's 100% on them.

Community yeah. We have poe1 players who's been loud enough to make GGG do changes to the game (and pretty much forced them to start doing leagues early instead of letting GGG just safely polish the game during the span of EA that should actually end 6 or 12 months ago, now due to much rapid changes we have what we have) We have complete poe2 noobs who either 0.1 victims, 0.1 glazers, Witnesses of the Promised Vision™, etc.
All the decisions GGG made with the game last 1.5 years is leading to the current chaos we have now.
Path of Friction 2 0.1, Path of Nefrs 2 0.2: Dawn of the Slog (Lightning Spear Edition), Path of Deadeye 2 0.3: I Died on Green Goo Again, etc. Every patch basically forking the community into pro-something or anti-
I don't think it will end soon as long as the game getting more and more of the new blood who got their own vision about how to fix certain problem (that also might not be a problem)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think honestly 0.5 is make or break patch for poe2 community that will show us if there will be a sweeping changes or 0.3/0.4 core of the game will be carried till 1.0

Tbh I barely see the picture what poe2 is really going be outside of becoming poe1 2.0