Just a reminder, please remove the team loot bonus in version 0.5.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

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Bahoq89#9161 wrote:

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

Idk what's foreign about the concept of caring about things that affect other people. Empathy isn't difficult.

I mean if it doesn't affect economy and anything at all as u said, so why do u care about?

Not sure if you just didn't read or what. My point is that the casual party players will be the ones that are the most affected, and it will drag them farther behind; while not making much impact on the output of those RMT farms. For a lot of us playing solo it has minimal if any measurable impact, but for the couch co-op cassuals that might not even ever participate in trade they would be punished the harshest.

wrong again, it would be better for them because the inflation would be much lower

So now you have to trade to play casual co-op, because otherwise your loot got nerfed? Either way my point is that inflation would not be considerably lower at all. The time it takes them to get 2 divines is doubled, the time it takes effective grinders to get 2 divines is unchanged. I'd love to see some numbers crunched to demonstrate otherwise, always makes for good discussion. Especially since we're out here suggesting the game designers make philosophical changes about how they want their game to be.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

So now you have to trade to play casual co-op, because otherwise your loot got nerfed? Either way my point is that inflation would not be considerably lower at all. The time it takes them to get 2 divines is doubled, the time it takes effective grinders to get 2 divines is unchanged. I'd love to see some numbers crunched to demonstrate otherwise, always makes for good discussion. Especially since we're out here suggesting the game designers make philosophical changes about how they want their game to be.

you seem to not udnerstand what inflation is and what demand and supply are, there is no point in arguimg with you because you just dont know these basic ideas. Or you know this and you just protect your party play with arguments that have 0 value

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

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Bahoq89#9161 wrote:

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

Idk what's foreign about the concept of caring about things that affect other people. Empathy isn't difficult.

I mean if it doesn't affect economy and anything at all as u said, so why do u care about?

Not sure if you just didn't read or what. My point is that the casual party players will be the ones that are the most affected, and it will drag them farther behind; while not making much impact on the output of those RMT farms. For a lot of us playing solo it has minimal if any measurable impact, but for the couch co-op cassuals that might not even ever participate in trade they would be punished the harshest.

They dont. Peeps haven't thousands of divs in a first week to fix the market = no hyperinflation. No hyperinflation = less item prices. Peeps still try to fix, still inflate, BUT they haven't so much resources in a few days to do so. So IMO that's a step in a right direction. And every single person who play poe and understand how it works agreed that partyloot is a problem for anyone except rmt multiboxers/party farmers(but hey, why do u want to farm hundreds of mirrors for?😉)

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ryszek#5266 wrote:

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

So now you have to trade to play casual co-op, because otherwise your loot got nerfed? Either way my point is that inflation would not be considerably lower at all. The time it takes them to get 2 divines is doubled, the time it takes effective grinders to get 2 divines is unchanged. I'd love to see some numbers crunched to demonstrate otherwise, always makes for good discussion. Especially since we're out here suggesting the game designers make philosophical changes about how they want their game to be.

you seem to not udnerstand what inflation is and what demand and supply are, there is no point in arguimg with you because you just dont know these basic ideas. Or you know this and you just protect your party play with arguments that have 0 value

+

Inflation is caused because infinite money is printed, so eventually it becomes worth less and less, particularly without a roughly balanced currency sink to take money back out of circulation. Love to hear how you'd define it here otherwise. Printing more faster does make that a bit faster for sure, but I'm arguing that efficient groups of solo farmers would wreck that nearly as fast if not equally as fast as the perceived party issue. I've done the math a few times in a few of these threads, I haven't been able to show how party play is any of the crazy advantages people are claiming. But I'd love to see it.

If you're saying the issue is hacks that allow people to bot and multibox, then for sure I agree that's a problem.

If you want to say the problem is leechers which are allowing a party leader to keep all of the loot instead of splitting it with the party members, we could make some interesting points there.


As far as the currency going into the system early: an RMT farm with thousands of people playing absolutely has thousands of divines within 24 hours of league launch. That remains true regardless of party bonus.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

Inflation is caused because infinite money is printed, so eventually it becomes worth less and less, particularly without a roughly balanced currency sink to take money back out of circulation. Love to hear how you'd define it here otherwise. Printing more faster does make that a bit faster for sure, but I'm arguing that efficient groups of solo farmers would wreck that nearly as fast if not equally as fast as the perceived party issue. I've done the math a few times in a few of these threads, I haven't been able to show how party play is any of the crazy advantages people are claiming. But I'd love to see it.

If you're saying the issue is hacks that allow people to bot and multibox, then for sure I agree that's a problem.

If you want to say the problem is leechers which are allowing a party leader to keep all of the loot instead of splitting it with the party members, we could make some interesting points there.


As far as the currency going into the system early: an RMT farm with thousands of people playing absolutely has thousands of divines within 24 hours of league launch. That remains true regardless of party bonus.

I think this guy nails it on the head. It's not the bonus. You should be able to group up and get some harder game/better rewards.

It's the would be cartels that simply abuse games for profit.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

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chilling0702#3970 wrote:

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

No I solo grind, because when I've tried full stack grinding I make significantly less currency. Same reason very few streamers ever party, and the ones that do have shown the math that they could have made more currency if they just went solo.

Are you sure you’re looking at an actual party setup with multiple aurabots and a 500%+ rarity culler? That’s a completely different thing from six normal builds playing together!

Yup, that's exactly what I did. Funded full set ups and juiced maps to run. Even Empy said he'd make more money solo than in a group and they definitely know how to grind efficiently.

But the MF group streamers I follow usually start blasting as a full group within the first few days of a league, when the Div/Ex ratio is still extremely low, and they’re already dropping screens full of Exalts. Regular players simply cannot replicate that.

And aurabots and cullers can’t even solo farm. Nobody creates characters like that unless the setup is clearly profitable.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

No I solo grind, because when I've tried full stack grinding I make significantly less currency. Same reason very few streamers ever party, and the ones that do have shown the math that they could have made more currency if they just went solo.

Multiboxing obviously a problem, but already against ToS and people get banned for it. Parties with 5 leechers might be a topic worth some consideration here, but everything I've seen so far that is an exception that's arisen because Temple is broken.

I'm confused how you highlight the problem itself then blame something else? Temple is beyond broken, fix that. I don't understand why removing the party bonus, which is already worse farm for me, would be the answer to Tenple being broken.

Streamers are RMTing themselves and gifted obscene loot from their viewers. Are you really sure that is who you want to defend here?

You solo grind. Ok. Then how does removing party loot bonus effect you? It does not. So you are blindly defending the RMT'ers, Botters, and Party Abusers who treat the game like a tycoon. Every response here has nothing to do with saying you play party because its fun or with friends. That ALONE should prove the point we are all saying. There is ZERO reason for a loot buff for parties. Remove the incentive to abuse mechanics.

As others have pointed out. Any glitch in the system for drops is only compounded by party play. Glitches are going to happen. So why let it get exponentially worse because of party loot buffs?

As I stated before, I believe GGG is not doing enough due to the Chinese servers and low and behold.... a player form the Chinese server has posted in this thread confirmed the same thing begging GGG to do something about it.

Not any streamers I'm referencing. Not defending botters or RMT at all. I'm saying that this suggestion hurts casuals much more than them. I party play with my friends off and on throughout leagues for casual fun too, that just wasn't really the topic of this thread so I didn't bring it up. When I grind, I grind solo for sure.

You say the bonus should be 0%. OK sure, say we do that. Now when you are in a full party, you get 1/6 of the loot split that you would have if you were each grinding alone. Are you suggesting people should be punished for playing together?

Yeah glitches and bad math happens. The economy would still be just as messed up in 0.4 even if the was no party bonus. So it doesn't even solve our really meaningfully affect the problem in the first place.

What?

Casuals are not forming rarity parties to abuse the bonus loot. I am not saying remove ALL loot. I am saying remove the BONUS loot. How is that so hard for you to understand?

You play with friends cool. Me too. Guess why I do it. I will tell you, it has NOTHING to do with BONUS loot. The BONUS loot is what we are talking about. The increased rarity multiplied by rarity bots. It is not that hard to understand.

Why do the "Free Xp NO damage NO loot" parties exist? Please explain this SINGLE point and you will see the problem.

Side note, what streamer/s are you referencing? DM? Tri? What other streamer are you referring to? I know for sure you cant be talking about Empy or Ziz....

If you have a full 6 man of all friends enjoying the game together, is that not enough? They need BONUS loot on top of that? You are proving the point again and again it is about the BONUS loot and NOT enjoying the game with friends.

But but but they have 5x the HP! Yea, and you have 6x the damage in a game where you can be strong enough to have 5afkers and still one shot. Again, IT IS ALL ABOUT THE BONUS LOOT.

Remove bonus loot
Remove rarity/cull bots
Remove multi boxing
Remove RMT'ers

Boom, economy is already in a better state. Even with the temple BS from Johnathan. Removing the BONUS loot from parties would have stemmed it some what. Party BONUS only multiplied the problem.

But you went from solo only to I group with friends sometimes. The truth is starting to come out. You want bonus loot to carry someone. That is the problem. You are doing it for the loot and not the enjoyment of playing the game with friends.

Solo streamers are blasting in the first couple of days too. Solo streamers are doing sub 4hr campaign and sub 6hr to T15 maps. Fubgun gets a HH day one.

Regular players cant replicate that either.