A little feedback about archetypes and lack thereof

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SalamiHaze#9389 wrote:

PD2 (most popular d2 mod) buffed melee by adding splash. SSo, still melee, semi aoe solution. Of course they did gazilion of balance changes besides that but in the end melee take by pd2 crew was well received by community.

That's pretty cool, at least the guys in PD2 get it.

I’ve been asking for splash damage to be added by default (at least for close-range melee skills) for a while now. It helps bridging the gap between ranged and true melee builds.

But for GGG stuff like that usually has to be part of the skill tree or tied to a unique item that almost no one uses, like that belt that allows you to carry 2 flasks of the same type.

In poe 2 melee needs to be extremely realistic, inconvenient and 'grounded'. But of course, ranged is allowed to be unrealistic, convenient and 'floaty'.

The problem is that splash only solves about 10% of the problem though, but it's a good starting point.

Nah, melee splash is lame.

The whole point of melee is that weapon hit lands exactly where it lands.

To compete with non-melee the game must just offer good clearing movesets, even if they are far from realistic. Barb WW in Diablo 2 is a good example. Fresh Warlock Cleave skill in D2R is a good example too. There could be more like these, combined with dashes, side hits or whatever.

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Azimuthus#1135 wrote:

Nah, melee splash is lame.

The whole point of melee is that weapon hit lands exactly where it lands.

To compete with non-melee the game must just offer good clearing movesets, even if they are far from realistic. Barb WW in Diablo 2 is a good example. Fresh Warlock Cleave skill in D2R is a good example too. There could be more like these, combined with dashes, side hits or whatever.

Actually barbs WW in d2 hits single target at a tick so splash finally made it feel like WW.

I know it`s not most sophisticated implementation but it works and definitely could be considered as at least temporary answer for melee handicap. What`s more its implementation could be almost instant as opposed to designing and adding new skills.

Also i disagree that weapon swing should necessarily hit one target at a time, especially for 2hander. Hence splash aint that lame for me and definitely closer to being realistic than "movesets, even if they are far from realistic".

splash already exists

It’s on an implicit for fanatic maces


Its also on the tree on the far left as well

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

splash already exists

It’s on an implicit for fanatic maces


Its also on the tree on the far left as well

I know splash already exists in poe 2, the problem is that is either just a base type for maces or is far to reach for a lot of classes, instilling is supposed to be an endgame thing, the delirium quest in act 4 only drops low level emotions.

The point is, i think splash shouldn’t be a notable on the skill tree, a unique item, a support gem or a weapon type. It should be inherent to most melee skills.

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Azimuthus#1135 wrote:

Nah, melee splash is lame.

The whole point of melee is that weapon hit lands exactly where it lands.

To compete with non-melee the game must just offer good clearing movesets, even if they are far from realistic. Barb WW in Diablo 2 is a good example. Fresh Warlock Cleave skill in D2R is a good example too. There could be more like these, combined with dashes, side hits or whatever.

Using a controller to target with certain melee skills can be pretty rough, you can end up hitting different enemies than you intended, or sometimes the hit doesn't register due to the size of the enemy or the body collisions. Splash helps alleviate that problem.

This mentality of "that's lame the whole point of melee is this or that" is the exact problem with melee in poe2. There's always this emphasis on the ideals of what the archetype should look like, instead of paying attention to the gameplay loop and the inherent limitations the game has.

But again, i said this before and i'll say it again, splash only fixes like 10% of the problem. I feel like i need to make this clear once again or ppl will turn this discussion about melee splash dmg...

Not sure what skills outside of current mace skills you’d want splash on

It might be just how they want to design that. Without going too far into unnecessary power creep. Giving AOE in just a generic sense rather than it be specialized



POE1 the support gem is only strike skills anyways

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This mentality of "that's lame the whole point of melee is this or that" is the exact problem with melee in poe2.

POE2 melee is endless AOE, no idea what are you talking about.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Not sure what skills outside of current mace skills you’d want splash on

It might be just how they want to design that. Without going too far into unnecessary power creep. Giving AOE in just a generic sense rather than it be specialized



POE1 the support gem is only strike skills anyways

Specialize in what?

GGG said something similar before, about wanting melee and ranged to have pros and cons, but what are the advantages of melee? I can't think of anything that melee weapons/skills can do better than ranged.

So i ask again, specialize in what exactly?

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Without going too far into unnecessary power creep. Giving AOE in just a generic sense rather than it be specialized

Isn't that what Heralds do? You stack 2 of them and suddenly "melee" can clear everything, That is power creep. How is that so different from Tribal Fury?

If anything, "strikes deal splash damage" is considerably more balanced than Heralds, it only works with strikes, you need to be in close range, and it can't trigger multiple times from a distance like Herald of Blood + Herald of Plague + that support gem that i forgot the name can do, or the Herald of Ice + Herald of Ash variant.

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Azimuthus#1135 wrote:

POE2 melee is endless AOE, no idea what are you talking about.

Yeah i can see that, that's exactly the problem.

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Azimuthus#1135 wrote:

The whole point of melee is that weapon hit lands exactly where it lands.

What part of heralds triggering off screen is "hit exactly where it lands"? Can you please tell me? I fail to see the "whole point of melee" with that.

I’ll +1 this as I agree with enough of it.

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Vyend#2601 wrote:

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Not sure what skills outside of current mace skills you’d want splash on

It might be just how they want to design that. Without going too far into unnecessary power creep. Giving AOE in just a generic sense rather than it be specialized



POE1 the support gem is only strike skills anyways

Specialize in what?

In single target versus splash/spread . A good example is all the spear skills that are strike tagged.

And if you want clear evidence of something like that theres even a unique spear that gives you that mechanic see here:


Im guessing they want to relegate splash rather than just making it a generic support. Cause if they make it a support they will nulify the entire idea of items like this as well as the maces with "splash" as a tag.


Asking for generic melee splash support would be power creep. You're just nulifying items now because you want a support.


Thats a big -1 from me. You should have to make a choice for a mechanic like splash. Not just have a support given to you for every mechanic you want.

Otherwise you may as well start asking for "always hits" support or "Warcries Empower an additional Attack" support.


All of these things are given on the tree, and items for a reason. Instead of a support gem.