A little feedback about archetypes and lack thereof

There are three things that bug me with PoE2 archetypes so far :

1) Some very, very classic archetypes are missing from the game

- Why is there only one mediocre, and largely unused, fire bow skill? Couldn’t we get at least a basic fire arrow? Right now, building something so simple as a fire archer feels like an absolute stretch (here is a good read about it: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3910602). I can make a djinn-skeleton summoner using frost bomb, but I can’t have a fire arrow.

- Why working so hard to make talisman shapeshifts so indissociable from one arbitrary element? When I started using wolf form, the first thing that came to mind was bleed and poison. Quite intuitive, right? Slashing about, opening wounds, spreading rabies... nope. Ice. Your main job as a wolf is to make ice cubes. I get it, wolves live in cold places, that makes sense, but what about some basic flavours? PS: the blood moon MTX is super cool and would answer the problem (albeit behind a paywall), but the ennemies still shatter in blue ice cubes, so... not really convincing.

- Poison javelins. This is a staple of the genre. There is a unique javelin that boosts poison stacks, but no actual skill gem revolving around poison. Viper Napuatzi has been traumatizing half the playerbase with poison spear skills since 0.1.0, but we still don’t have this privilege 3 major patches later.

2) Players are discouraged from "pure archetypes" ("classics", if you will)

Wanna be a bear? You should still use lunar assault for that juicy buff, and pounce for mobility. Wanna be a wolf? Not using ferocious roar would be dumb. Wanna be a djinn summoner? Take an army of skellies and specters with you or say bye bye to your potential dps. Fire sorceress? don’t forget your frostbomb for exposure. lightning sorceress? don’t forget your firewall.

Feels like you have to forsake your archetype fantasy just to stay in the course, since this is a market driven game. Is it because we lack a lot of options still? I don’t know. Just saddens me.

3) Herald spells and general elemental pairing

Who decided Ice would be associated with intelligence? Fire with strength? Lightning with dexterity? I get the vibe, but in practice, it just discourages some classes/ascendencies/weapons from choosing the element they want to play with. Fire archer? Better load up on strength. Ice archer? You gon’ have to be smart. This problem I have is also exacerbated by the first problem I mention. Why should I pay an attribute tax just because I think this or that element is cooler for this or that weapon, provided the skill gems to make it work even exist? It just feels so arbitrary.


I’ve been bringing friends on this game, friends that have played most of the ARPGs we all like, and I always get the same comment : "Why can’t I just do <insert basic archetype>?". An unique that goes "converts this damage type to this damage type" ain’t cutting it. Visuals matter.

Is anyone else feeling this too? Do you think it will get better with time?
Thanks for your attention.

Most of this comes down to the whole ea thing


But the archetypes and pure section is just wrong. Has to do with how you understand how build


Especially the fire comment, so wrong

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

But the archetypes and pure section is just wrong. Has to do with how you understand how build
Especially the fire comment, so wrong

It’s better if you illustrate. Could you tell me how you make a fire archer work, and I mean genuinely work, on par with other builds? I’m really interested.

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Kaozium#2036 wrote:

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

But the archetypes and pure section is just wrong. Has to do with how you understand how build
Especially the fire comment, so wrong

It’s better if you illustrate. Could you tell me how you make a fire archer work, and I mean genuinely work, on par with other builds? I’m really interested.

Goalpost. Nice added “on par with other builds” whatever that means


Stuff in your pure section can look to my profile if you need fire sore figured out for you. Did it since .1

All content


Plenty probably out there for it as well not just sorc

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

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Kaozium#2036 wrote:

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

But the archetypes and pure section is just wrong. Has to do with how you understand how build
Especially the fire comment, so wrong

It’s better if you illustrate. Could you tell me how you make a fire archer work, and I mean genuinely work, on par with other builds? I’m really interested.

Goalpost. Nice added “on par with other builds” whatever that means


Stuff in your pure section can look to my profile if you need fire sore figured out for you. Did it since .1

All content


Plenty probably out there for it as well not just sorc

Not sure why you’re attacking me right now, my question to you was genuine. Especially if you’re following with a "probably" as an argument.
Not moving the goalpost. You say my comment about "fire" is wrong, I genuinely ask you an example so I can explore further and maybe find solutions, and you clap back immediately. From your comment I now understand you talked about fire sorc and not fire archer. Cool. So you found one counter example and discard my post for that?
I’m just giving feedback about how the game feels for me and some friends, there is no need to be like that.

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Kaozium#2036 wrote:

Not sure why you’re attacking me right now, my question to you was genuine. Especially if you’re following with a "probably" as an argument.
Not moving the goalpost. You say my comment about "fire" is wrong, I genuinely ask you an example so I can explore further and maybe find solutions, and you clap back immediately. From your comment I now understand you talked about fire sorc and not fire archer. Cool. So you found one counter example and discard my post for that?
I’m just giving feedback about how the game feels for me and some friends, there is no need to be like that.

Okay respectfully you need to pay attention.

Fire archer isnt even in your "pure section" either. I even responded about fire sorc, something you specifically put in the section I replied to.

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I even said

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most of this is due to ea

which is missing skills, missing trees, ascendancies, classes, etc.



I have the characters you say cant ... exist? Or "arent on par with other builds"?
Ie pure archetypes


Most of that section can be satisfied with players here, including me, and a basic internet search on builds.


I disagree with that entire section. As I have that, many players have those as well, and this is just something that is incorrect in the current game.

"on par with other builds" is just added after your initial post, as a goal post. As I dont know what that means. It could mean anything from COC comet (broken) to LS

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

[...]

Let’s call it a misunderstanding then.
I acknowledge you agreed with part of my post too.

I added "on par with other builds" to mean "viable". Because, of course, you can build anything, but if it doesn’t even work on a white T15, it can hardly be called a build, right. Technically you can play a ranger with detonating arrow as its only skill, and it will indeed be a fire archer, but it’s not really a viable idea. That’s roughly what I meant. Didn’t mean "as strong as CoC Comet circus", for example.

Let’s see if anyone else has something to add to the discussion!

It's not an EA thing. If it were it would be getting better not worse.

Grenades have always been locked to Crossbows from the start. By adding the Elemental Infusion system they locked out any attempt to mix them. Talismans use very obvious pre-set kits.

By using the Weapon = Class concept they heavily restrict what you can actually mix together. There aren't any bow fire skills because there are crossbow fire skills. They want us to play presets.

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Kaozium#2036 wrote:

Technically you can play a ranger with detonating arrow as its only skill, and it will indeed be a fire archer, but it’s not really a viable idea. That’s roughly what I meant. Didn’t mean "as strong as CoC Comet circus", for example.

What do we consider viable?

After i saw Shwingy doing whole journey to arbiter with fangs of frost chronomancer(can check on yt) or gearless monk killing it, my idea of viable builds kinda changed. If we talk about content clearing capabilities, there is more than we think, just a matter of budget and dedication to find proper setup. Of course there is one important factor that can narrow this idea drastically which is keeping up with meta pace.

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

It's not an EA thing. If it were it would be getting better not worse.

Grenades have always been locked to Crossbows from the start. By adding the Elemental Infusion system they locked out any attempt to mix them. Talismans use very obvious pre-set kits.

By using the Weapon = Class concept they heavily restrict what you can actually mix together. There aren't any bow fire skills because there are crossbow fire skills. They want us to play presets.

Literally everything is ea thing atm. I know it`s lazy, i know it`s naive but we all agreed on those terms by not waiting for 1.0 release.

I`m aware gatekeeping skills behind weapontypes will 99,99% not change till official release but saying lack of fire bows is because crossbow skills is just... meh.

Also idea of forced presets doesn`t click with me given what they did in poe1. Combo gameplay? Yes. Presets? It would be really weird. We will see.

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SalamiHaze#9389 wrote:

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Kaozium#2036 wrote:

Technically you can play a ranger with detonating arrow as its only skill, and it will indeed be a fire archer, but it’s not really a viable idea. That’s roughly what I meant. Didn’t mean "as strong as CoC Comet circus", for example.

What do we consider viable?

After i saw Shwingy doing whole journey to arbiter with fangs of frost chronomancer(can check on yt) or gearless monk killing it, my idea of viable builds kinda changed. If we talk about content clearing capabilities, there is more than we think, just a matter of budget and dedication to find proper setup. Of course there is one important factor that can narrow this idea drastically which is keeping up with meta pace.

There is subjectivity involved for sure, But I would say a build that feels fleshed out and reasonably clears all non-uber content without needing a stupidly disproportionate currency investment. I’ve seen that monk stuff and frankly I believe it is the exception and not the rule; that’s a few select ascendencies. For the purpose of the discussion, I think it’s better to take an intuitive, consensual definition of the term.
I mean, try to make a proper poison shred build and see how it goes :D Im sure you can approximate something, but then you’ll compare it to your run of the mill poison bow build and see what I mean. One has the lego bricks and the other doesn’t.