Zoom vs engagement is a false dichotomy; we need options for both

I think it was the ZiggyD interview where Mark said that he wanted to make it possible to adjust things a lot more with the atlas, and this is the kind of thing I've been advocating for for a while now.

Ultimately with the right options available on the atlas tree it should be possible that those who want to be able to blast through screens of enemies without pause and those who want to fight for their lives in every encounter, and everyone in between could all be happy.

I'm sick of seeing this argument over and over. GGG, we need the ability to adjust stuff like monster damage, health, pack size, etc for ourselves, such that both sides of this argument can get the game they want.

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Kalistri#2788 wrote:

I think it was the ZiggyD interview where Mark said that he wanted to make it possible to adjust things a lot more with the atlas, and this is the kind of thing I've been advocating for for a while now.

Ultimately with the right options available on the atlas tree it should be possible that those who want to be able to blast through screens of enemies without pause and those who want to fight for their lives in every encounter, and everyone in between could all be happy.

I'm sick of seeing this argument over and over. GGG, we need the ability to adjust stuff like monster damage, health, pack size, etc for ourselves, such that both sides of this argument can get the game they want.

The problem is, once the slow-people see the zoom-people makes x10 more currency than them they will cry out and demand nerfs for zoom-people :(

Meanwhile the zoom-people can't give a shit about what the slow-people do with their build.

It's a slow-people problem. Forcing everyone to play at their pace, or ELSE.

A large portion of dispute simply comes from what players think ARPGS are.

In it's simplest form an ARPG is simply a CRPG without turns. That's it.

There is such a thing as "too fast" but there technically isn't a thing as "too slow". Too slow is a pacing problem while too fast turns into a mountain of problems. To put in normalized conditions. Imagine playing a JRPG. How many turns do you feel it should take to kill a boss on average?

No one is going to say 3 turns. That's silly and unfulfilling. You hardly engaged with the boss or any mechanics. Fighting a JRPG boss that takes 100 turns is equally silly and a slog but every round was engaging, it had phases, multiple mechanics and kept you engaged the entire time.

These might seem like extreme comparisons because I converted them into turns. But just convert them back into seconds. Which is fundamentally better?

I've been doing RPGs for over 30 years. One-shots aren't fun for either side of the table.

Slow is boring, zoom or "feel like a god" is way better.

What WE need is for MANY weak builds to also be zoom compatible. So that we can try out lots of new builds.

Think GGG's direction is pretty solid at this point.

Nerfing rhoa(deserved) is kind of spelling out what kind of pace they want people at.

As well as nerfing the MS boots.



Im glad, I like a slower pace and more involved mechanics. Seems like that is what the devs like as well

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

How many turns do you feel it should take to kill a boss on average?

No one is going to say 3 turns. That's silly and unfulfilling. You hardly engaged with the boss or any mechanics.

That's your perception. There are people who want their character min-maxed to tho the point they can ONESHOT the boss. It shouldn't happen on day one or not even on week one, but it should be possible at some point - a month in? With a massive budget spent on gear and heavy time investment.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

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Kalistri#2788 wrote:

I think it was the ZiggyD interview where Mark said that he wanted to make it possible to adjust things a lot more with the atlas, and this is the kind of thing I've been advocating for for a while now.

Ultimately with the right options available on the atlas tree it should be possible that those who want to be able to blast through screens of enemies without pause and those who want to fight for their lives in every encounter, and everyone in between could all be happy.

I'm sick of seeing this argument over and over. GGG, we need the ability to adjust stuff like monster damage, health, pack size, etc for ourselves, such that both sides of this argument can get the game they want.

The problem is, once the slow-people see the zoom-people makes x10 more currency than them they will cry out and demand nerfs for zoom-people :(

Meanwhile the zoom-people can't give a shit about what the slow-people do with their build.

It's a slow-people problem. Forcing everyone to play at their pace, or ELSE.

Lol. I appreciate that the very first response I get is basically an us vs. them style response.

Suppose combos become really strong, such that they do way more damage than spamming anything. Then t15 monster health and damage and whatever else is increased, such that the highest difficulty in the game is actually difficult and to get through them you gotta be careful, use combos, be tactical and methodical. If you want to zoom through a map, you gotta go to a lower tier but you get less loot. Are you happy to let people do their combo gameplay as long as you get to zoom in lower level maps with less loot?

Of course not, don't be ridiculous.

Stop trying to make this us vs them. With this kind of thinking, we would get something in the middle where no one is happy and everyone keeps arguing over this bs over and over.

Let's imagine instead a situation where you can adjust the difficulty and loot in t15's, such that both kinds of players get roughly the same loot, but everyone can get the experience they want. Hopefully GGG can see that this would be the best path.

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Everything_is_taken#0515 wrote:

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

How many turns do you feel it should take to kill a boss on average?

No one is going to say 3 turns. That's silly and unfulfilling. You hardly engaged with the boss or any mechanics.

That's your perception. There are people who want their character min-maxed to tho the point they can ONESHOT the boss. It shouldn't happen on day one or not even on week one, but it should be possible at some point - a month in? With a massive budget spent on gear and heavy time investment.

True
That is exactly the goal for me on each season to min-max character into god. And that really cannot happen in weeks.
It would be bad make player impossible to reach that state. IMHO

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

The problem is, once the slow-people see the zoom-people makes x10 more currency than them they will cry out and demand nerfs for zoom-people :(

It is the problem, really. Both camps should earn the same amount. I will have exactly zero problems with zoom gameplay if there will be non-zoom option which will give the same amount of rewards. I actually have no problems with zooming in general when I think about it. I just have problem with zooming being meta.

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Everything_is_taken#0515 wrote:

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

How many turns do you feel it should take to kill a boss on average?

No one is going to say 3 turns. That's silly and unfulfilling. You hardly engaged with the boss or any mechanics.

That's your perception. There are people who want their character min-maxed to tho the point they can ONESHOT the boss. It shouldn't happen on day one or not even on week one, but it should be possible at some point - a month in? With a massive budget spent on gear and heavy time investment.

Imho it should always be possible to go find a challenge at any level, no matter how strong your character is. I don't like the idea that at some point everything is easy and there's no challenge any more. To me that's basically the opposite of a reward.