instant buyout bots bein WAY faster than site live search make bots OP broken.. mby do somth?

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агент#7715 wrote:

Trading should be a way of exchange, not a way of earning money, so the developers need to make all players more independent in their methods of obtaining items and increase the drop rate of all items

This can only happen if the most powerful items are made account-bound.

GGG have this strange philosophy (borrowed from D2) that EVERYTHING (some exceptions) must be tradeable.

Most of the powerful items are crafted. They can easily make crafted items (and for example, mirrored items) account-bound.

However, this is controversial and will not sit well with a lot of players at the top end.

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hasatt0#7256 wrote:

"

агент#7715 wrote:

Trading should be a way of exchange, not a way of earning money, so the developers need to make all players more independent in their methods of obtaining items and increase the drop rate of all items

This can only happen if the most powerful items are made account-bound.

GGG have this strange philosophy (borrowed from D2) that EVERYTHING (some exceptions) must be tradeable.

Most of the powerful items are crafted. They can easily make crafted items (and for example, mirrored items) account-bound.

However, this is controversial and will not sit well with a lot of players at the top end.

its not that strange when you consider those 2 games, poe and d2, are the only really successful long term arpgs. they understand that is because of that design.


so many people say buff drop rates and make it bound. ok, so thats essentially what we have in d3, and grim dawn, and le, and d4 for a long time, torchlight, titan quest, basically every other arpg. why dont people play those games that provide what they want? because they dont, they provide that mechanism but they dont provide items people care about. no one gives a shit about their items in those games after a short time playing them, it becomes meaningless.


the long lasting value people feel for items in poe is fundamentally linked to the game having powerful items you will never find, never be able to own and having a trade environment where the collective sense of value we all put in items is shared. it doesnt matter if a mirror is directly valuable to me right now, its massively valued by the community so its a big deal if i find one. and that is still true even if i dont plan to trade it. but it all comes from an item system designed around a trade economy.

people misunderstand that statement. theyre not saying they designed the game around you and me trading, that we need to trade to play the game properly. thats nott rue, they design the game to work self found, know most people will play self found and believe that the most rewarding way to play the game is self found and hence they love us playing without trading. its designed about the ability to trade, not actually trading. the ability to trade is what adds such a massive sense of value to items.



these are loot hunt games, essential to these games is weaving a spell where players actually feel like the pixels have genuine value. thats why people want to log on and play, its why people log on and play D3 for 2 days and quit because theres nothing left they are farming for that feels valuable to them.

that sense of value is so fragile, you buff drops too much and it falls apart, you wall people off and lose the community it falls apart.


players are independent in their ability to find items, there is just items in the game you are not supposed to have, those are the items you dont have, hope to have and thats why you keep logging on, hoping that one day you find that item. they can sometimes let you find one but there has to be 20 more you still want and dont have. thats why poe has worked long term, thats why d2 worked long term, thats why all those other arpgs are dead, theyre cool for logging in you play a week or 2 and then say ok bored now feels pointless and you leave because ultimately the item system at the core of their reward loop is shit and doesnt hold the game together. the day you have everything the core gameplay loop falls apart. its why lvl100 is beyond most people, its why magebloods and mirrors are beyond most people, uber uber end-endgame content is beyond most people. its not oh they made this game for the 1% they should let us all play it, no that content is there for everyone, its there for the people who cant get it to put something on their horizon they aspire to some day reach. maybe next map they might drop that mirror, and then they can get that gear (because they can trade), and then they can do that content theyve never been able to do. maybe.

its not gonna happen. and thats why that carrot will still be there tomorrow and the next day and the next year and its one of the core mechanics behind why they are still here after a decade while all those other arpgs rot in their steam library.



people will dispute this heavily but the reality is theres 2 games designed like this and theyre the only 2 that really worked long term.

[/quote]


its not that strange when you consider those 2 games, poe and d2, are the only really successful long term arpgs. they understand that is because of that design.


so many people say buff drop rates and make it bound. ok, so thats essentially what we have in d3, and grim dawn, and le, and d4 for a long time, torchlight, titan quest, basically every other arpg. why dont people play those games that provide what they want? because they dont, they provide that mechanism but they dont provide items people care about. no one gives a shit about their items in those games after a short time playing them, it becomes meaningless.


[/quote]

You're linking the low online rate of these games to item drop rates, but you're not taking into account that these games have different graphics, different skills, no regular updates, no touts saying, "We've released a new update, come check it out," and other things that are in POY but not in other games have nothing to do with "rare" items.

People are crazy about owning "expensive" items that sit like dead weight in a chest.

I hate trading and everything related to it. I hate evaluating items and selling them. I could just throw things in a chest, not for sale, but just for anyone to take. If I don't need them, let them go to those who really need them, no matter what the purpose. But I can't do that because my inventory is limited, my time is limited, I can't spend my whole life collecting junk and pricing it to sell it and make money, because GGG has reduced my loot. Someone might say, oh man, you're just unlucky, try longer, how much longer? Forever? I just want to play the game, not endless inventory management, play PoE, not Tetris.

Right now, how much you earn directly depends on how many trading tabs you have, because you can just collect junk, bases, and throw it in a box. The more trading tabs you have, the longer items can stay in them; eventually, a potential buyer will find them while you're running maps and filling up the next tabs.

PoE is a computer game; a computer game is just pixels and nothing more. If you love trading so much and are eager to sell items to other players, then let GGG make MUCH more loot in solo leagues

Online PoE is all about trading. No one wants to play together, no one wants to share loot, no one wants to help each other out of the blue, because PoE is all about getting items for yourself alone. And those who play in groups do so only to get more items, not to play together. PoE is the most toxic online game in the world.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Or the so called "streamer effect". When I first played a 100% Phys taken as Fire Champion with Cloak of Flame + Arctic Armour + Immortal Call and stuff, the PoF Sublime Vision was only around ~5d or so.

PoF Sublime Vision was never 5D. It's always been a chase item.

When I was playing Diablo 3, I was fully leveled up in just a few minutes and given a full set of items, simply because I asked. From the first minutes of Diablo 3, I was already playing with other players; that was REAL online. Can you imagine even one person in PoE who would do this without benefit? It would be like a mirror falling out

Why would they do something? So many top POE streamers RMT openly on twitch saying "It was a landmine guys" without getting banned, they aren't banning bot traders anytime soon.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

It was around the time it came out. I bought one, though it must have been 5ex (so, yeah, technically you are correct). And the very same day, literally a couple hours after I bought mine, a streamer or YouTuber published a video and it completely blew up.

This item was introduced with Sentinel League, and you only started playing with Affliction, which came out quite a bit later, no? This build has been a known one ever since the item released, not something that suddenly became a “niche” with Affliction’s arrival.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

No. I've been playing this game since April 2013.

Are you sure about that? Your profile suggests otherwise… January 2024 and April 2013 are quite far apart. No shame in being a newer player, but it’s a bit optimistic to use this topic to advertise a build or try to take credit for something that existed long before, credit really belongs to the players who actually figured it out, made proper showcases or build guides highlighting a true powerhouse at work, rather than claiming it mid‑league years later.

After all, this topic is about the bot issue with the new trade system, not about builds we wish we’d discovered. To get back on topic, it was pretty clear what would happen if GGG opened the gates for bots even further. At least the older system prevented it a bit, but now it’s basically free roaming for them. Honestly, the game would be in a much better state if it were like D3 or LE, fully designed around acquiring items yourself, with trading just as an optional feature. LE’s CoF and MG systems have proven that a common playground can exist without unbalancing either mode. Giving bots no playing ground would go a long way.

Giving bots no way to funnel there ill gotten goods down to their handler by removing direct player to player and making async trade 100 % anonymous would go a long way to stopping rmt bots as well, yet here we are.