The issue with gold and the current market, and Ange.

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DistributedAutomaton#5739 wrote:

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Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

I have seen posts of people in here that want players to be actually banned for paying someone else 1 div for a castaway run and such.

Ignoring any philosophy, I think it's impossible to ban carries. How could you possibly enforce that?

I also think people would care about these topics less if there were more to do in the endgame. Maybe once 0.4 drops, there will be other chase goals besides "Get moar currency."

Exactly this. End game is very dry. The infinite atlas makes no sense and the devs will eventually realize that and change it.

In the long run, an endless infinite atals like that becomes a total mess. It's honestly pointless and not exciting at all. If they double down on it, there should be some massive QOL around it to cover the poop that it is currently. Like searching/highliting maps with a search bar.

Bookmarks are a good thing but it's simply not enough for this to not be a mess. There should be a super boss in the game, like D2. A difficult one that a single char cannot defeat and that you need to group to kill. It should be something that happens once a day or a week or some sort of event like that. Races are simply not great.

In end game, there's not much to do. And you are right, this leads to people getting bored fast and coming to this forum to troll.

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

I think removing direct player to player trade would open their eyes up to how much of what goes on is legitimate. I would hope they will eventually realize this on their own though rather then having regulators step in.

Honestly, I would be in favor of removing player to player trade at this point

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iHiems#0168 wrote:

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

I think removing direct player to player trade would open their eyes up to how much of what goes on is legitimate. I would hope they will eventually realize this on their own though rather then having regulators step in.

Honestly, I would be in favor of removing player to player trade at this point

So that means you are against Ascendancy Services and Castaway runs because poeple couldn't be able to pay them. That's just some of the many things this kind of change would kill. This game revolves around an economy, softcore trade is the main cow and the most played. Not only this type of change would have radical and damaging repercusion on the experience in general, but it would radicalize a very huge chunk of the player base, if not the majority of it.

I don't understand why people can't forsee the impacts of such barbaric change requests. That's just one example. I shouldn't care nor be invested in this, that's why I genuinely think the forum is nowadays just a troll hideout.

I wouldn't want to be the game dev of POE2. They must have thick skin to be able to handle all of this. I guess they are paid for it but still.

But the doom and gloom you refer to like no ascendancy services or no mirror service are not actually about playing the game. It is about letting a very small percentage of the players skip parts of the game so that a even smaller percentage can amas small virtual in game fortunes. All at the expense of the massive amount of abuse, scams, account hacking and fishing attempts, RMT and bots that add to the power creep that warps the game. Plus leaving player to player on with async trade going in makes the potential manipulation and abuse of the market worse.

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Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

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iHiems#0168 wrote:

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

I think removing direct player to player trade would open their eyes up to how much of what goes on is legitimate. I would hope they will eventually realize this on their own though rather then having regulators step in.

Honestly, I would be in favor of removing player to player trade at this point

So that means you are against Ascendancy Services and Castaway runs because poeple couldn't be able to pay them. That's just some of the many things this kind of change would kill. This game revolves around an economy, softcore trade is the main cow and the most played. Not only this type of change would have radical and damaging repercusion on the experience in general, but it would radicalize a very huge chunk of the player base, if not the majority of it.

I don't understand why people can't forsee the impacts of such barbaric change requests. That's just one example. I shouldn't care nor be invested in this, that's why I genuinely think the forum is nowadays just a troll hideout.

I wouldn't want to be the game dev of POE2. They must have thick skin to be able to handle all of this. I guess they are paid for it but still.

That's ok. It's fine to sacrifice some things for other sometimes. It wouldn't have a major repercussion aside from mirror shops and some castaway or other paid map runs such as exp boost. I'm alright with those gone if it means a more stable economy

Gold is the barrier that keeps RMT from super running the market. Honestly divine gold trading cost needs to be increased by a wide margin, help keep some inflation down then and force RMT players to actually farm a bit.

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

But the doom and gloom you refer to like no ascendancy services or no mirror service are not actually about playing the game. It is about letting a very small percentage of the players skip parts of the game so that a even smaller percentage can amas small virtual in game fortunes. All at the expense of the massive amount of abuse, scams, account hacking and fishing attempts, RMT and bots that add to the power creep that warps the game. Plus leaving player to player on with async trade going in makes the potential manipulation and abuse of the market worse.

I don't think the percentage of people asking for an ascendancy service are as small as you think. A lot of players are not very good at this game and hate ascendancy. You see their post in here all the time. And in hardcore, some people do not want to die to some hard bosses or ascendancy, so they pay for that.

I can't put a number on it, but I would estimate at least 10 000 people each league require that service and thats pretty conservative. I don't offer that service and I never paid for it but a lot of people do.

As for RMT, removing trading dosen't solve this. Because the RMT seller will ask the buyer to list an item overpriced in their hideout and purchase it from them. You cannot stop RMT unless you have a team on it, and then it becomes easy to ban them. Removing trading is throwing the baby with the water and you didn't solve the problem.

As for hacking and fishing attempts, removing trading dosen't remove that at all.

There will always be bots, even if you remove trading.

As for scams in trading, when a player remove an item there is already a failsafe that prevents from trading if he removes an item. The remaining scam is then the person puts a different item than what was promised, now thats a scam. But if that scam occurs, that account will most certainly be banned because there is a trace. I once almost got scammed in 0.2. I have reported the guy and hours later that account was banned.

Just because there are bad actors, you just don't nuke the whole thing. Removing those services would make the normies extremely mad if they cannot access it. These people are already mad at exp loss on death and such. If you remove the ability to have services to help them, you just straight up spit on their face.

If you remove that then a new 3rd party market will emerge. There will be ascendancy services sold by the RMT firm and such. Ever heard of Al Capone?

I can already see it coming : "With the purchase of 300+ divines, get a free fast ascendancy from one of our professional!"

You guys need to think deeper and analyze the repercursion of what you are asking for. These are blantanly easy example and there will be so many more. Bad actors will always adapt. Removing power from players, only gives them more power.

Here's a very simple solution to the Castaway 'legal exploit' effectively allowing people to buy/sell gold: this map should drop gold only for the map owner.

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Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

You guys need to think deeper and analyze the repercursion of what you are asking for. These are blantanly easy example and there will be so many more. Bad actors will always adapt. Removing power from players, only gives them more power.

Who is asking for anything? In person trade won't get removed anyway, no one in their right mind would think it would when async trade is still so new and GGG still has so little data or experience with it. At least for the foreseeable future there's no chance it would

You're talking as if people are rioting or something when there was barely any discussion about it. It's arguing for the sake of arguing

I also don't think anyone is naive enough to think that just removing in person trade would solve global hunger or that there wouldn't be workarounds that people would find to keep exploiting lmao

I'm not going to play the devil's advocate anyway, there's no point, in person trade isn't going anywhere. I will just say that the main reason I would be in favor of it one day getting removed is to get rid of mirror shops, but there are better ways to do it

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iHiems#0168 wrote:

You're talking as if people are rioting or something when there was barely any discussion about it. It's arguing for the sake of arguing

Imagine GGG reading this lol. "Bro I didn't really meant it, I was just here to argue for the sake of it"

This person has the correct wisdom on this matter :

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DistributedAutomaton#5739 wrote:

I also think people would care about these topics less if there were more to do in the endgame.