Elementalist question (?)

You used that whole post to show the opposite of what you are trying to say? Really? lol.

I already admitted to the other guy's example that, in rare situations (very very VERY rare), this mod can add fire damage where you don't want it. But in typical builds that convert phys to fire in ANY way....you have overcapped max fire resistance to begin with. They'd have to be doing a LOT of base damage (aka a 1hko pre-converted fire boss attack) for that situation to even matter in the least. Even if you weren't immune to ignite, having overcapped fire resistance, or even really 75% is going to render most ignites meaningless, even if they were coming from a source that hit you with 100% fire damage.

The "multiplicative" diminishing returns effect is seen on Cloak of Flames, NOT this conversion node. Because the conversion is acting on the ENEMY. The mods that convert the physical damage in this way are ADDITIVE together: meaning an attack that the ENEMY gives itself (30%) and the conversion that you are "granting" the enemy (40%) add together to reach a total conversion of 70%. The only time this would be not true is if the conversion goes above 100%.

Meanwhile, CoF works on the fractional amount of physical damage you ultimately end up taking. Less physical damage taken means less physical converted. Less "powerful" defensively, if your goal is converting physical damage to fire.



Do you not realize that you are explaining the opposite point you lead with? Nor do you refute the fact that your initial post in here was completely meaningless to the previous discussion being had. Nor does your conclusion functionally matter.

You fail to grasp the point, both mine AND your own.


What you said partially right: conversion doesn't inherently reduce DoT dps. EXCEPT in this case for physical DoTs, because its reducing the physical hit that would inflict that DoT. It would INCREASE the DoT of ignite, but that was never a part of the conversation.



I'll repeat: the only UNIQUE scenario that CoF has is CB (get immunity), ground effects (super rare), and non-hit physical DoTs (super rare). But against monsters, it functions practically the SAME as conversion. Perhaps a little more or less here or there but FUNCTIONALLY the same in your build.



The condescension and impatience comes from a long history of posts from you being very inaccurate and often misleading: when I specifically remember your name and how you post, and you go and fall into the same pattern I'm not going to waste my time being courteous. That ship sailed a year ago.

I even gave the benefit of the doubt and offered a preemptive apology a few posts back, but turns out I wasn't wrong in my initial observation.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

You used that whole post to show the opposite of what you are trying to say? Really? lol.

Mate, Cloak of Flame works differently. I guess it's difficult to grasp that Damage Taken as X is unaffected by Penetration, which is why Cloak is straight up better, as also the remaining damage is much smaller and doesn't need much to be fully mitigated, and can't be messed with via Penetration or damage stats.

Edit: Let me rephrase this section to avoid confusion and because my wording was very bad:

Unaffected by Penetration was the incorrect term. What I meant was circumvents. It's what you use to circumvent stuff like Shaper Ball's 25% Pen, via Cold Damage taken as Fire, for instance.

For Shaper of Flames, Fire Penetration will effectively be the same vs Cloak in the case of Physical Damage.

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Against enemies that don't convert damage, it's practically similar, IF, and only IF, they can be and are ignited and you got no good mitigation. Functionally not the same. The effect is diminished as you shift more damage and add a bit of damage reduction. You will not achieve high enough damage conversion on enemies with no conversion to achieve the same damage reduction, in particular because most bosses have conversion mechanics or similar.

It can actually become detrimental to stack too much conversion or damage shift when a few thousands of Armour would achieve a better result, unless you are fully invested into Fire Damage reduction and have 90% max res.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The condescension and impatience comes from a long history of posts from you being very inaccurate and often misleading: when I specifically remember your name and how you post, and you go and fall into the same pattern I'm not going to waste my time being courteous. That ship sailed a year ago.

I even gave the benefit of the doubt and offered a preemptive apology a few posts back, but turns out I wasn't wrong in my initial observation.

[Removed by Support] who eventually got perma'd for the constant condescension in every reply? You do sound much like him, I suspected as much.

no although I guess thats why I haven't seen him post in a while.

I am well aware of the order of operations thank you, but it simply doesn't matter. Penetration would hardly ever factor into this conversation, again a rarity that doesn't matter in the overall conversation. Perhaps I should have included that in the CoF benefits, but ultimately it doesn't matter.

I don't make a habit of talking about every little thing as if they matter to every conversation. I actually read what I'm responding to and respond to what is being asked.

You, however, want to boast about the depth of your knowledge. An act which has frequently thrown yourself into hot water. Frankly, no one cares.

The question was: will this work with totems and does it function similar to CoF. The answer to both is yes. You wrote no because you wanted to get into the semantics, which as I already mentioned several times DON'T MATTER in 99% of your gameplay. Not only that, but your post didn't say all the things you are NOW saying re: penetration and other things, which frankly would have been better suited in your first post instead of "because it interacts with arctic armour".

And you were wrong about "priority" because it doesn't apply, yet you felt the need to bring it up.



Fact is: this node reduces physical damage taken by a lot. CoF ALSO reducs physical damage taken by a lot. Both convert the damage to fire, which means you mitigate it as fire. End of discussion.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The question was: will this work with totems and does it function similar to CoF. The answer to both is yes. You wrote no because you wanted to get into the semantics, which as I already mentioned several times DON'T MATTER in 99% of your gameplay.

It doesn't, though. I like being specific when it comes to PoE things.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Yes, it works. Yes, it's somewhat strong. And yet completely situational.

DoTs cannot be converted, and most of the bosses have their own skill conversions or mechanics, which will always take priority, i.e. Sirus' skills:

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30% of Physical Damage Converted to Lightning Damage
30% of Physical Damage Converted to Fire Damage

It does not work like Cloak of Flame, because Cloak manipulates the hit damage you receive and (uniquely so) a portion of the DoT. But Damage taken as X is not damage conversion. That's why Cloak is (imo) simply superior to something like Lightning Coil in pretty much most cases, as Cloak can interact with Arctic Armour's less Damage taken as well.

Both questions answered correctly and not half-assed for the sake of numbers.

#final

You say you want to be specific, then you incorrectly describe your own specifics. You offer tangential information unrelated to the thread, and also offer a secondary thing like Arctic Armour, which by the way you misleadingly describe as ONLY working with CoF when it actually works in BOTH scenarios. It just works "better" with CoF by a marginal amount. In fact, numerically in most scenarios even that isn't true.

This is why I said what I did in that other thread.....its always the same with you. I knew this whole ordeal was coming, for no real reason. Walked right into it.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

You offer tangential information unrelated to the thread, and also offer a secondary thing like Arctic Armour, which by the way you misleadingly describe as ONLY working with CoF when it actually works in BOTH scenarios.

Why do you force my hand to reply again. I guess reading is hard. I was comparing Cloak of Flame to Lightning Coil in regards to Arctic Armour. /massive facepalm

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That's why Cloak is (imo) simply superior to something like Lightning Coil in pretty much most cases, as Cloak can interact with Arctic Armour's less Damage taken as well.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

This is why I said what I did in that other thread.....its always the same with you. I knew this whole ordeal was coming, for no real reason. Walked right into it.

At this point Support should just step in. Your attitude is completely uncalled for and very negative for no particular reason.