Mirror and RMT - Major Economy Disbalance

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Scarletsword#4354 wrote:

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

What all of these threads have in common, is that some people think it's impossible to earn several mirrors and thousands of divines without RMTing, which of course is just factually wrong.

You are absolutely right. There's a decent amount of regular players, especially bow users who just grind out their 1-2 mirror items every single league.

As for myself, I just had a lot of fun with my build and decided to craft the following ring which took me 41 locks and some change (approx. 8 mirrors).

I will gladly share my strategies. I grinded most currency through non-void Valdos since the way I set up my build allows me to run almost all Valdo modifiers (and all T17 modifiers at the same time) while still having ~200% movement speed.
I'd set up bookmarks for livesearches of every item that'd possible throw a reasonable profit per time invested, bulk open valdo boxes and fill the downtime with some chill mapping that allows me to portal at any time like twist of fate conquerers while everything sells.

Some bookmarks

Twist of Fate

1x escalation, 4x risk, no Kirac

Rush boss, vaal all maps, alch invitation for 70% quant and vaal

~90-95% of the initial currency for the build came from the following strategies and Kingsmarch(100% solo, no MF, no flipping, no profit-crafting) and were farmed with the build:

Invitation boss rushing

Remove scarabs and twist of fate nodes, spec into shrines instead;
no scarabs or Kirac used

deli mirror loot tiles on 8mod strand

1x mania, 4x paranoid;
Kirac's domination(shrines)

low effort T17

2x adversaries, 1x lineage, 1x hordes, 1x hunted traitors
Roll maps for 3-4 currency and scarab modifiers combined, regular chisels, no Kirac

bloodlines alva T17

Expensive
1x bloodlines, 3x risk, 1x glittering
Kirac's domination(shrines)
Roll maps for 70% packsize and at least 1x currency 1x scarab modifer before using packsize chisels

Requires ridiculous screen clear as the maps reach 200% packsize.
Adding blight would technically better but the amount of monsters causes a client crash. :^)

risk rush T17

5x risks
Roll maps for 150quant with regular chisels, no Kirac

Rush to the boss, click quant altars on the way and kill it for a chance of 3 uber fragments.

A man of the people. :)

Nice ring.

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dj16921#7047 wrote:

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Aynix#7757 wrote:

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dj16921#7047 wrote:

I love the whole "just learn how to make enough currency to get a mirror" argument. You do realize you can do the exact same thing someone in a "get rich video" or a rich streamer does and get different results, right? You can watch them from day 1 in a league and replicate what they do and still end up poor. I always find it amusing though when they magically appear in the next video or stream with 20x the currency they had previously and just hit us with a "well this stuff sold off stream / camera so thats where that came from." Meanwhile the stuff you're trying to sell sits for weeks on end while they somehow magically reach a mirror.

You know whats the secret to make a mirror(or more) in every league? PLay a lot, stick to one strategy instead jumping to 20 diffrent ones, and you will get your mirror soon enough. You dont need to replicate any "super uber hidden forbiden strat". Just go mapping, juice the mechanic you like, play efficiently, and you can make mirror in 50-75h of grind.
Or just learn the market, start flipping and make mirror in 10h (In settlers, thanks to Faustus and TFT I was getting like 50div/h flipping)

Oh look. The "just play the game and properly juice your stuff" quote. Where have we seen that before?

Perhaps in the game? Because thats how the game works. Stop sitting in HO and actually PLAY the game and you will have more than enough currency.
Every single time someone complains about not being able to make money, it comes from players who do one map an hour and spend the rest time sitting in HO semi-afk.

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dj16921#7047 wrote:

[..]You do realize you can do the exact same thing someone in a "get rich video" or a rich streamer does and get different results, right? You can watch them from day 1 in a league and replicate[...]

The first thing to improve, is stopping being delusional, and realize you're not doing the same thing.
If you compare your 2h playtime to a 20h day 1 session, that's a huge difference.
If you play 20h day 1, but open your first map after 15h, that's a huge difference.
You try to replicate, but you don't...

Be honest with yourself, find your sweetspot. It's ok if you don't wanna stress your playtime, but then it's normal if you're not instantly rich. It takes dedication, effort and time. Find your own fun. But if being rich is your fun, it will require some effort and efficiency.

You're only lying to yourself in the end, mad cuz bad will not make you improve.

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dj16921#7047 wrote:

I love the whole "just learn how to make enough currency to get a mirror" argument.

Can I ask you a question? Do you think everyone with more than one mirror and 1000 divines in their stash is dabbling in RMT?

Don't blame the players, blame the game. All of this RMT debacles happened because the developers allowed them to be via game-design decision. I don't blame or hate players that do RMT, I blame GGG if they fail or refuse to crack down shady trades and ban RMTers.

If GGG truly want RMT to be gone, mostly (since no matter what, shady deals are inevitable in any form of trades), balance every single aspects of the game in term of SSF, design the game just like Last Epoch SSF mode. But unfortunately they can't, not because they don't want RMT gone, but simply because of how the game is monetized and relies on live-service design.

The game can't be made way way too easy than it is now because they will be whiners and ego gamers that don't want it, while also reluctant to admit that friction is one of major factor for players to do RMT, and as well as how the monetization also rely on over-time exposure from MTX shop.

But the game also can't be way way too much infested with frictions here and there, masking it as difficulty. The frequent "balance" changes that most of the time nerfing outliers, nerfing skills that are solid but not as popular as the outliers, questionable changes to skill gems and ascendancy points, the fear of overbuffing, all of the changes in patch notes that will shake the previous knowledge of the game usually won't be accepted well because of the fear of failure in the upcoming release, and how the game is designed and tailored around trade.

People that don't play PoE for a living won't really have that much time and effort to be spent in just a singular game or just gaming in general. It could lead into direct reduction in monetary gain because they decide to not invest to the game (via new supporter packs) that they thought they have a decent knowledge of it from previous "patch" but suddenly that knowledge is contested heavily and often rendered to be irrelevant because of major nerfs.

Just like Mark said in Settlers release video, balance is hard. Its hard not because its "hard" to change lines of codes, but its hard because they can't truly gauge how the changes will impact game reception and subsequently how it will impact the monetary gain. Afterall, GGG is a company that meant to made profit. In the end, GGG will keep doing what has been perceived as "working" with balance changes and how all of them are tailored and designed around trading, which means Mirror and RMT situation won't be changing that much.

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bewilder2#0356 wrote:

If GGG truly want RMT to be gone, mostly (since no matter what, shady deals are inevitable in any form of trades), balance every single aspects of the game in term of SSF, design the game just like Last Epoch SSF mode.

I can only speak for myself here, but I literally spent the most money and had the most fun before patch 3.9.0 that removed multi-mod crafting (limited to 3, including itself), among other things such as double monster HP.

I miss the days where I would buy bricked T1 attack speed bases for 1ex from mirror gear crafters and slap on a few bench mods to then have a functional weapon for my build.

Bench crafting and Harvest showed that it can be done, but it will also be abused in trade league. We need more ways to reliably craft gear for ourselves, so that we don't have to trade so much. GGG is seemingly adamant that is not a solution, but I disagree. I think it's better than anything they have tried since.

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6_din_49#4066 wrote:

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Rassomaxa69#5346 wrote:

Ruetoo noob.
Removing the mirror will make the situation much worse. Schizophrenia

+1

Mirror tier items would simply sell for real money. RMT-ers would adapt to this change easily.

Good let them do it, its very easy to see what the top items are in a league and all perfect mirror tier items exist in handfuls GGG can easily track them and ban everyone involved.

RMT affects every single persons experience with the game due to how injecting botted currency into an economy causing inflation and devaluing everything thats not considered a high tier item. This has been known for 20 years now in all types of games its not debatable its just fact.

As someone with over 25 mirrored items, i agree mirrors should work ONE TIME ONLY and i saw another post i like which is that should have the option of corruption after being mirrored if they were one time only.

Deleting mirrors from the game will literally ONLY HURT RMT.

Mirror and mirror service is synonymous with RMT.

There are exceptions, and dropping a mirror and selling it doesnt mean you RMT, but you are just supplying it to the RMT market.

But I dont see how this solves much. People would just RMT thousands of divines to buy the best gear, rather than buying a mirror and whatever the mirror fee is.

Mirrors provide a convenience to the RMT market, not create it. And like others said, removing it would cut the ultimate chase item.