The GGG / TenCent "Vision" Needs Glasses. (Video Act 3 Cruel Rootdredge v Cold Huntress)

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

As for your guitar comparison (which is also stupid) I could just as easily use your own point against you and say that all you have to do is practice playing guitar and then it wont be hard.
Surely for someone who knows well how to play guitar playing a song isnt hard for them. So then according to yourself it takes no skill.

That's a negative, ghost rider.
Some pieces remain difficult to the extreme no matter how many times you've played it. A lot of things are like this. 10,000 hour rule states that you may be a master at something and it still be difficult.

I have done the content but can't one shot. I have to engage with the content, (somehow you like to ignore this) and it's generally with experimental builds.
I don't do meta builds.
I don't follow guides.
I have ideas and try them out. Some work, most dont. My argument is that in the endgame, it random and unique builds should be more viable although not optimal.
Through the campaign they should ALL be viable.
Gear negates most of this argument.

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Skyvortex#7923 wrote:

That's a negative, ghost rider.
Some pieces remain difficult to the extreme no matter how many times you've played it. A lot of things are like this. 10,000 hour rule states that you may be a master at something and it still be difficult.

That would be false according to your own analogy.

You watched a yt short of some top 1% player one shotting arbiter and then using this as an example of the game not requiring skill.

Im sure I can find a top 1% guitar player who can play that song blind, drunk and upside down. So therefore by your own admission it requires zero skill.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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Skyvortex#7923 wrote:

That's a negative, ghost rider.
Some pieces remain difficult to the extreme no matter how many times you've played it. A lot of things are like this. 10,000 hour rule states that you may be a master at something and it still be difficult.

That would be false according to your own analogy.

You watched a yt short of some top 1% player one shotting arbiter and then using this as an example of the game not requiring skill.

Im sure I can find a top 1% guitar player who can play that song blind, drunk and upside down. So therefore by your own admission it requires zero skill.

You really, REALLY need to go back and re-read what I actually said.

Nice thread. Some guy took amazon equipped it in some crap and gave random cold build (I'm pretty sure without cold penetration). Picked frost resistant boss with frost resistant adds. And shows that how long it's to kill by cold build cold resistant boss. Really.
Also by pressing random buttons he shows some sort of "Vision". Moreover he almost 100% trolling because in first attempt he started to run around doing nothing when boss had not a lot of adds 100% trying to increase battle length.

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Skyvortex#7923 wrote:

Gear is absolutely a "difficulty" switch that you can turn off and on.
Take your gear off except your weapon and go beat arbiter. You don't "need" that right? Surely your skill will suffice.
Like I said before, you have to engage with the game's mechanics. But to suggest that <press spacebar to roll dodge> is some sort of skill threshold is absurd. Hell, even that can be negated with gear. The argument is optimization vs functionality. My argument is that if you rolled your face over the keyboard to place your passive skill tree and allocated every single point, then it should still be functional although not optimal. Otherwise, start arguing that most of those nodes are useless.

My appeal to the game is the illusion of creativity. But, they don't want that. Why do you think there is a delay on lightning rod?
It's because of orb of storms.
It's not because I want an easier or more difficult game.

Again with the false dichotomy. There's a whole lot of variation between no gear and gear that's good enough to skip phases of boss fights. No need to go that far to make a fight more difficult (maybe once I learn it really really well :p). What if I use some non-meta build (actually this is the only kind of build I play, lol) and so I have to do all the phases in the arbiter fight? What if I change my weapon for one that gives me half the dps so the fight lasts twice as long? Are these variations and whatever other myriad possibilities there are, of sub-optimal gear I could take into the fight roughly the same difficulty or would you say that there's perhaps a wide variety of difficulty tiers, such that you might call it a spectrum?

Your ego might not be allowing you to perceive that you want the game to become easier, but that would be the effect of what you're proposing, because someone who then does optimize their build would be stronger than that, just like they are now, only with a faceroll build being possible, an optimal build would just melt everything. Also the way you're talking about skills tells me that you're not interested in playing anything unless it can trivialize the game mechanics, which is to say, unless it can make the game easy. The game has so many skills that have cool, interesting mechanics, but you dismiss them all like "350% of 0 = 0", because regardless of how untrue it is, your idea of "viable" is a question of whether or not you can keep up with the market, which in turn makes it a question of whether or not you can skip boss mechanics.

You don't have to keep up with the Joneses, you know? Everything that GGG has nerfed is still working, but you might have to learn mechnanics if you play them.

Also, what if that's the vision that you so like to disparage? To nerf builds to the point where people have to have actual fights with monsters? Would you basically say that in that case, no builds are viable? To make it so you can't kill things before they become a threat? It seems to me that this is what GGG have been talking about ever since they started talking about PoE 2, and this is what I'm here for.

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Kalistri#2788 wrote:

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Skyvortex#7923 wrote:

Gear is absolutely a "difficulty" switch that you can turn off and on.
Take your gear off except your weapon and go beat arbiter. You don't "need" that right? Surely your skill will suffice.
Like I said before, you have to engage with the game's mechanics. But to suggest that <press spacebar to roll dodge> is some sort of skill threshold is absurd. Hell, even that can be negated with gear. The argument is optimization vs functionality. My argument is that if you rolled your face over the keyboard to place your passive skill tree and allocated every single point, then it should still be functional although not optimal. Otherwise, start arguing that most of those nodes are useless.

My appeal to the game is the illusion of creativity. But, they don't want that. Why do you think there is a delay on lightning rod?
It's because of orb of storms.
It's not because I want an easier or more difficult game.

Again with the false dichotomy. There's a whole lot of variation between no gear and gear that's good enough to skip phases of boss fights. No need to go that far to make a fight more difficult (maybe once I learn it really really well :p). What if I use some non-meta build (actually this is the only kind of build I play, lol) and so I have to do all the phases in the arbiter fight? What if I change my weapon for one that gives me half the dps so the fight lasts twice as long? Are these variations and whatever other myriad possibilities there are, of sub-optimal gear I could take into the fight roughly the same difficulty or would you say that there's perhaps a wide variety of difficulty tiers, such that you might call it a spectrum?

Your ego might not be allowing you to perceive that you want the game to become easier, but that would be the effect of what you're proposing, because someone who then does optimize their build would be stronger than that, just like they are now, only with a faceroll build being possible, an optimal build would just melt everything. Also the way you're talking about skills tells me that you're not interested in playing anything unless it can trivialize the game mechanics, which is to say, unless it can make the game easy. The game has so many skills that have cool, interesting mechanics, but you dismiss them all like "350% of 0 = 0", because regardless of how untrue it is, your idea of "viable" is a question of whether or not you can keep up with the market, which in turn makes it a question of whether or not you can skip boss mechanics.

You don't have to keep up with the Joneses, you know? Everything that GGG has nerfed is still working, but you might have to learn mechnanics if you play them.

Also, what if that's the vision that you so like to disparage? To nerf builds to the point where people have to have actual fights with monsters? Would you basically say that in that case, no builds are viable? To make it so you can't kill things before they become a threat? It seems to me that this is what GGG have been talking about ever since they started talking about PoE 2, and this is what I'm here for.

This guy is so out of touch with reality.

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Skyvortex#7923 wrote:

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

As for your guitar comparison (which is also stupid) I could just as easily use your own point against you and say that all you have to do is practice playing guitar and then it wont be hard.
Surely for someone who knows well how to play guitar playing a song isnt hard for them. So then according to yourself it takes no skill.

That's a negative, ghost rider.
Some pieces remain difficult to the extreme no matter how many times you've played it. A lot of things are like this. 10,000 hour rule states that you may be a master at something and it still be difficult.

I have done the content but can't one shot. I have to engage with the content, (somehow you like to ignore this) and it's generally with experimental builds.
I don't do meta builds.
I don't follow guides.
I have ideas and try them out. Some work, most dont. My argument is that in the endgame, it random and unique builds should be more viable although not optimal.
Through the campaign they should ALL be viable.
Gear negates most of this argument.

Tbh you cna get through the campaign with absolute dogshit builds. Thge only real Bottleneck is Viper. Because Damage is very crucial when fighting her.

The arguments in the thread are basically disparaging to me because they don't want to deal with harsh realities. Sure, toss whatever insult you want at me, I don't care. The game's numbers tell the tale. When they release 0.3.0 they will lose half again the number they lost in 0.2.0 and so on.

I get it that people say, "I'm a gamer god, I can dodge everything and beat arbiter with a toothpick and a pool noodle." OK, fine, we aren't talking to you (mostly because you are lying and wont post the video to prove it.)

NMow back to specific points:

Q. Why didnt you use Parry and FOF to make ice explosion.
A. Because that only works in small packs with a small numbers of enemies. In a large pack you get stun locked and don't even parry. Dont believe me? Go play it.

Q. Why do you not use Elemental Sundering / Whirlwind / etc?
A. I used elemental sundering every few seconds whenever i had frozen enemies and wasnt trying to pick up charges. As for whirlwind, it has minimal, less than minimal, utility to use with it and its attack speed requires you to stay in one place to cast full force and you do NOT want to stand still.

Q. Why didn't you dodge all of the mechanics like I would have?
A. Ok sure you are a gamer god. I am not. I am a normal person that is a player. If the game is only for gamer gods then my point with the entire thread is made and enjoy the TenCent whale life.

Q. Why do you use such a crappy build and not lightning spear / chaos lich / etc.
A. Because last league I did use those before they were meta. Got bored before arbiter though. Endgame is super boring. I also played perfect strike warrior to end game.

This build was chosen on purpose based on the synergies and penalties GGG put in the game. FoF is pointless without parry so it uses parry. Glacial lance is pointless without frenzy charges. Any reasonable player will conclude that they are to be played together and orient their passive tree and gear accordingly.

Q. I killed everything in the game reasonable well / super fast with my build of Lightning spear / Chaos Lich / etc.
A. I would say ask the 0.1.0 Spark players how that worked out but most have quit. They don't want you to kill it all easily. They want you to do what I just showed you. This is the game GGG is trying to build. They don't want you going through the campaign in 15 hours, they want it to take 50. They don't want you to blast through maps, they want you to hardcore fight through maps. Literally everyone that flamed me is about to find their build NERFED to death in 0.3.0 unless GGG changes course.

The only thing I dont understand about all of this "bad build" business is people not reading the OP. Not understanding the point of the OP. It isn't very long really.

Q. Why are people just flaming rather than seeing the point?
A. The flamers can gain traction because 120k people that started patch 0.2.0 and left because they agree with me arent here to post.

I get that there is a cadre of "Game is fine" people and I get that the moderation staff lets you disparage, flame and insult those that arent. I also understand that wont lead to the success of the product. And guess what? The NUMBERS show I am right.

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TenCent owns 100% of grinding gear games and has a long history of games that are only playable with MTX whales. Instead of making games with broad appeal they dont care if 95% quit so long as the rest of the whales spend thousands on MTX. To make that happen you have to have a game that is free but near unplayable as a free game.

you made some breaf conclusion about TC, that's not true at all.

and still it has no any one solid evidence to dev in POE2 had any thing to do with TC.

wake up~

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Q. Why are people just flaming rather than seeing the point? .

We all have different pov what poe2 should be. We know that most here play meta (including me), some never liked poe1 and want poe2 to be different, some want to feel like a God and some want each map to be little dark souls like fight. I am aware that vision took 180 turn, two back flips and ride south but still hope GGG can find themselves and at least deliver one promise.

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Sheridan Pang#6587 wrote:

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TenCent owns 100% of grinding gear games and has a long history of games that are only playable with MTX whales. Instead of making games with broad appeal they dont care if 95% quit so long as the rest of the whales spend thousands on MTX. To make that happen you have to have a game that is free but near unplayable as a free game.

you made some breaf conclusion about TC, that's not true at all.

and still it has no any one solid evidence to dev in POE2 had any thing to do with TC.

wake up~

Introduced loot boxes and new mtx before all poe1 was transferred as promised. You want to make your character look cool.like in poe1? Oh well we don't have eta for existing mtx but there you have new mtx we had time to produce.