Streamers who are in hideout 24/7

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YNRY#3842 wrote:

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Galyan#8109 wrote:

I'm a certified public accountant, don't tell me how banking works. And yes, crafting is still gambling.

Very bizarre behavior for a CPA. Like I said before, if you're talking about streamers, you can go do your accounting work and see if their wealth adds up or not. But you've called for bans without evidence. Dumb.

The gambling thing seems to have gone over your head. The whole game is gambling. If you want a nearly perfect item, what are the odds of obtaining it from killing a monster vs. using the crafting system? POE2DB can answer that for you.

What are you actually upset about, anyway? The fact that the game has a crafting system?--has an economy? Does it bother you that some people like playing econ simulator more than killing monsters? If your problem is with RMT, then probably 90% of the player base is in agreement. It's just funny that you'd screenshot Belton of all people, given his crusade against TFT.

Also, this is an early access game. There are people with legitimate problems dealing with bugs, balance issues, etc. I think most players hope that when the game is ready for full release, the devs will have the capacity to deal more swiftly with exploits, duping, RMTing, etc. What you're doing with these posts isn't helpful.

Is there a standard behavior for a CPA? I believe we do have a code of ethics but no code for morale, nevertheless, our standard is transparency, which is what I am trying to decode with this post.

Where did I call for bans? Did I imply it? Did I express it? It seems my reading comprehension is a bit too slow.

Placing unexplained wealth and its relation to RMT'ing into a microscope is not helpful? My apologies, I thought it would be better for the economy if RMT'ing was actually punished.

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Galyan#8109 wrote:

Where did I call for bans? Did I imply it? Did I express it? It seems my reading comprehension is a bit too slow.

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Galyan#8109 wrote:

While we're at it, we need to ban those 24/7 hideout streamers who accumulate unexplained wealth.

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Direfell#7544 wrote:

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Galyan#8109 wrote:

Where did I call for bans? Did I imply it? Did I express it? It seems my reading comprehension is a bit too slow.

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Galyan#8109 wrote:

While we're at it, we need to ban those 24/7 hideout streamers who accumulate unexplained wealth.

Maybe we should ban 24/7 forum quoters that accumulate an explained wealth of specific examples.

Brutal!

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Direfell#7544 wrote:

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Galyan#8109 wrote:

Where did I call for bans? Did I imply it? Did I express it? It seems my reading comprehension is a bit too slow.

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Galyan#8109 wrote:

While we're at it, we need to ban those 24/7 hideout streamers who accumulate unexplained wealth.

I stand corrected on this one. Doesn't make my other arguments wrong.

i just wish they'd make the whole thing a little cheaper for those of us who aren't skilled at raising the seed capital for doing any sort of crafting beyond slamming exalts.

There are guilds completely focused on trading...

According to an Asian streamer back in the day of Temporalis instance glitch which also stated that RMT sites usually sponsor some streamers with gear and currency...

The truth is it's an arms race between bots/RMT and developers... Until we have neural networks acting as a broker between client and server to análise player behavior l, hardly something is going to change in that regard... Or until someone uses an approach like SEGA did and make it in a way that can start sueing for trademark violation instead of the traditional way... It's actually an interesting lesson from SEGA :)

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Galyan#8109 wrote:

Yeah 1 exalt to a mirror with no mapping whatsoever, that adds up

yep it does, it makes a lot more sense than turning an exalt into a mirror with mapping.



if you care about this issue mate im gonna ask that you open your mind to the idea you might be wrong and hear what i have to say. i know how it seems when you are new to the deeper side of poe markets, but actually staying in your hideout is the most profitable thing you can do if you have strong game knowledge and the ability to be terminally online.

essentially people can find a trade or flip that makes a small amount of currency but can be done in a minute, use it to generate an exalt or a chaos every couple of minutes. compared to levelling in the campaign that is a lot. they can then use that to do something that will generate a couple of divines an hour but requires an upfront investment. so now youve got 10 divines in 3 hours, while most people playing the campaign trying to get to endgame have 0, the really lucky ppl have 1. if you know the market theres stuff you can buy for 1 or 2 divines today that will be worth 4 or 5 divines tomorrow because of rapid early market shifts that occur as people generate wealth from 0.








i can give you 2 examples of where i have made a mirror+ in under a week without leaving hideouts in poe1. these methods are not profitable any more so im not ruining anything by being open with them.




making cluster jewels in poe1 using fossils. best way to craft certain cluster jewels was fossils, most people dont know that and even if you do it doesnt rly make sense to try and get that 1 jewel you want via crafting them. thats why people like yourself look at the system and think how tf are ppl making money from this? costs me a fortune to craft the 1 thing i want.

when you craft for money you dont try and get that 1 jewel you want, you make a range of stuff you can sell. i played chaos spell builds, i wanted specific chaos jewels, its hard to craft them but you can hit 30 things you can sell on your way to making the 1 you want. this was poe1 but ill convert the currency to poe2 terms so its easier to understand.


i was buying a blank jewel base for 5 exalts, using on average about 25 exalts of fossil currency on them for each 'hit' those hits were then worth between 80 exalts to 2 divines on average, occasionally i would hit one worth 4 divines and rarely hit a 20 divine jewel.

so my average input is 30 exalts and my average output is about 200 exalts. it takes me maybe 10 minutes to buy enough materials to make 10 of these things, perhaps another 10 minutes to craft them and list them. so i can turn 300 exalts in currency into 2000 exalts of items in 20 minutes. it then takes however long it takes to sell them, maybe i only ever sell 1200 exalts of that batch, thats still x4 on my investment. during busy times crafting 4 different bases of jewels youre making trades a lot, every few minutes ppl are buying from you.

using that method i made a mirror in a little under a week at one point.





2nd method.


one league we worked out if you used an ancient orb (which turns one unique to another) on a titcus span unique shield under ilvl44 (i think, vague memory) there was only 1 other unique shield it could turn into, a lycosade. interesting. not a profitable factoid on softcore but on hardcore you could reliably make about 5-8 chaos per shield, which a friend of mine did a little just to get a leg up, an 80 chaos starter to get himself some gear. hmm, ok, a quirk of the game, whatever.


few leagues later lycosade becomes a meta item and is now worth 2 divines, and i can buy an ilvl44 titcus span for 1-4 exalts and an ancient orb for about 10 exalts. and im getting back 300+ exalts every time i use this orb on this shield. my only gate here is being able to get those shields at that item level, the supply is limited. i played that league for 4 days, i dont think i ever ran a map afaik and i made 2 mirrors + change.






you got to understand that for YOU, and most people, crafting is gambling in poe. but there are ways to make certain things pretty reliably and as those things move in and out of metas etc they can be profitable. even if the profit is 1 exalt, if i can do this thing in a minute and make 1 exalt per minute for an hour thats 60 exalts, meanwhile the people levelling through the campaign might have 4 exalts from playing for that hour on day 1.

that means i can do something else now that can turn 60 exalts into 120, and its day 1 maybe thats 2 divines and i can buy something today for 2 divines that will be worth 8 divines in 2 days. ok so in 1 hour ive now made 8 divines of stock, im gonna be awake playing for 16 hours today, and tomorrow.

its not rly a surprise when these ppl have 300 divines on day 3 is it?




of course they havent played maps, why would they run maps for an hour with a 1 in 10 chance of finding a divine orb from a chest in that time frame when they could be making 4-10 divines an hour in their hideout that they can then flip into 30 divines and buy enough crafting materials to make 100 divines in items?



the game is playing the game, im talking about poe1 methods because i dont even trade gear in poe2. im done being a hideout warrior, i dont have the time or desire to play that game any more and i only ever had a toe in that pool at the best of times. im just interested in playing the game and finding cool items, having fun for a few hours a week with my friends.

but if you want to be a serious player in the poe markets then lesson 1 is most profitable methods do not involve running content. just like the real world mate, youre asking how people become millionaires without even going to work in a supermarket and earning minimum wage?

you see it now right? thats a guaranteed way not to become a millionaire. you can run a high high map strat in poe1 with specific content juiced to the roof which can be profitable. you can target farm specific bosses for loot table restricted uniques early league. theres a few strats that involve playing the game, most do not, most involve playing the market. same in real life, most people making millions per year are not going to work and doing a job like stacking shelves, collecting bins, laying bricks. they are playing the markets, its not a fixed income game like working, its making money from money. thats how big money is made because the more you make the more you can invest and the more return you get, its a feedback loop. working for a fixed wage doesnt compare.

Reading this topic and it makes me so nostalgic about diablo days, when people would join your game just to throw away nearly top items and disconnect.

Devs ruined loot and crafting, greedy people ruined economy, gg.

When you see a streamer sell an item that if you posted would either, never sell, or take days or weeks to sell, then it's rmt.

now when i say rmt i don't want to accuse streamers of actually rmt ( tho many and most do ). they have hundreds if not thousands of people watching them. some that are die hard fans that would love to buy an item their favorite streamer made. So they list the item, usually way overpriced and it still sells in minutes. Sometimes it may sit for a couple hours because people are smart and know to wait. IMO this is streamer privilege and rmt.

Yes it's rmt, even if it's the person cold hard earned currency. The sad thing is that many times it's not. People buy currency to purchase the items streamers list, not all, but more than 1 and that's too many.

Then there's the worst case scenario. The streamer is partnered with rmt companies. They craft the items or corrupt the items or do whatever gambling needs to be done on stream. they get all the views and fame then they are guaranteed to sell the item to the rmter. ever see them list it for WAY less than it should be? that too is for rmt.

ever see the streamer make a big sale offline and now has a mirror or many divines? rmt

Now a bigger issue is that STREAMER CLIENTS / SERVERS do exist. they don't even need to rmt because even tho they're doing mid juiced content you've been doing for a decade and never drop a mirror, MB or HH they drop 10 a league. like when rax and darth play for a week and get multiple. that's even worse than rmt to me. it tricks people into thinking they'll have the same luck and psyop them into playing. same for when they get the 6L in 3 tries every time or good gambling luck. disgusting.

most streamers do not rmt, most streamers are in solo self found for a start and actually have fairly average gear and low amounts of currency compared to real high end players. even streamers who trade occasionally like mathil and ziggy are poor as fk and have shit gear compared to actual high end players.


the real high end streamers like empy, if anyone really watches him you know he doesnt rmt and as good as gives away all his gear in as much as ggg will let him. belton leaves his stream on 24/7, even when hes asleep so that everyone can see all the currency entering and leaving his account when hes playing big in leagues. its all on tape and he does it like that so that there can be no doubt.


theres no streamer client.



this is all just cope. i played poe1 for 20k hours, i had better gear and equal or better luck than any streamer ive seen outside of belton and empy, and im nobody, theres significant amounts of people 100x richer than i ever was. ive been in guilds with streamers who get 100s and sometimes 1000s of viewers, been very good friends with them, hang out for hours in teamspeak almost every day for years. theyre just players like everyone else, absolutely nothing exceptional about their rng.

a few 100 divines is nothing, a mirror is nothing. people see a mirror and think a guys rich and rmting? ive seen people with stacks of 50 mirrors, almost every streamer is painfully middle class at best. anyone with their knowledge and play time should be able to farm a mirror if they really want one.