Nothing can save 0.2 update anymore

"

NoyAvargel#6918 wrote:

campain was fine the first time i played. .. but considering how long and slow the campain is. . do you really want to do it all over again every 3 months? do you think you will still enjoy this poe 2 campain at the time 1k that you do it? personally i dont

To be honest I'd probably be a-ok with it as long as we get the real act 4-6, a small boost to move speed and probably a lot (and I mean a LOT) more loot in campain.
I can understand that some people still wouldn't like it and I'd understand why, as far as I'm concerned it wouldn't be a problem for me.

For me the real problem is that the atlas progression and late game grind are extremely boring and really not worth putting time into at the moment.
That was somewhat fine for an EA launch but at this point it seems like developpement is incredibly slow and even best case scenario it will apparently take a LONG time until the game becomes "late-game-viable".

"When we finished developing 3.0, we knew we couldn't extend path of exile campaign forever, adding more acts will make the game just too long before players got to maps"... "for years now we've been wanting to make a sequel to path of exile. The problem with that though is that sequels split a community between two products it's also hard for a sequel to compete with the amount of content and features that the original game has. We've just spent six years making expansions for path of exile, so imagine if we released path of exile 2 and it was just a bare campaign with none of that extra content. This would be a sad shell of an action RPG compared to the current state of path of exile."

~Chris Wilson
Exilecon 2019 Official PoE 2 Announcement.

"

LFA01#0120 wrote:

"

NoyAvargel#6918 wrote:

campain was fine the first time i played. .. but considering how long and slow the campain is. . do you really want to do it all over again every 3 months? do you think you will still enjoy this poe 2 campain at the time 1k that you do it? personally i dont

To be honest I'd probably be a-ok with it as long as we get the real act 4-6, a small boost to move speed and probably a lot (and I mean a LOT) more loot in campain.
I can understand that some people still wouldn't like it and I'd understand why, as far as I'm concerned it wouldn't be a problem for me.

For me the real problem is that the atlas progression and late game grind are extremely boring and really not worth putting time into at the moment.
That was somewhat fine for an EA launch but at this point it seems like developpement is incredibly slow and even best case scenario it will apparently take a LONG time until the game becomes "late-game-viable".

A major flaw of the campaign is that you don't have mechanics in it.
Rituals? One. (with cruel repeat two)
Expeditions? None.
Breaches? None.
Essences? Basically none.
Rogue Exiles? The same.
Delirium? Nope.
Like... they don't even introduce stuff to you until maps.
And then, for what are we grinding anyway? For the nerfed pinnacle boss uniques? For a crafting project? Pfff. For min/maxing or another character?

30k for how dog this patch was is impressive considering LE just came out and it already dipped to those same numbers and people were talking about how great it is.

"

LFA01#0120 wrote:

"

NoyAvargel#6918 wrote:

campain was fine the first time i played. .. but considering how long and slow the campain is. . do you really want to do it all over again every 3 months? do you think you will still enjoy this poe 2 campain at the time 1k that you do it? personally i dont

To be honest I'd probably be a-ok with it as long as we get the real act 4-6, a small boost to move speed and probably a lot (and I mean a LOT) more loot in campain.
I can understand that some people still wouldn't like it and I'd understand why, as far as I'm concerned it wouldn't be a problem for me.

For me the real problem is that the atlas progression and late game grind are extremely boring and really not worth putting time into at the moment.
That was somewhat fine for an EA launch but at this point it seems like developpement is incredibly slow and even best case scenario it will apparently take a LONG time until the game becomes "late-game-viable".

im not gonna lie i have alot of problems with the game as it is right now. . the main problem is that i dont find the game fun..

1: campain is too long and me who usually play PoE every season thats every 3 months and usually makes 2-3 builds sometimes more.. i dont want to have 20-40 hours campain..

2: loot.. and i dont just mean "we need more loot" i mean the entire loot system is not good. . they took out all the loot from monsters put it in bosses and in some rares. . the result is that you are playing ARPG where theres no reason or reward for killing monsters or having more monsters.. on top of that you can say theres also not enough loot too much loot is useless and you spend alot of time picking up pocket money loot.. if thats not enough we have rarity .. and how it works on monsters is jsut not good because how it makes it mandatroy on items and how it makes 3 towers mandatory

3: phase of the game and meaningful combat. .. many people will say how they love meaningful combat but poe 2 doesnt really have meaningful combat it has clunky combat and they keep saying they like it because "meaningful combat" it sounds good. . but i hate it in ARPG .. i sometimes play for 15 hours straight after gym.. . i dont want to have to be 100% focused always and have to do combos to clear a pack of garbage useless white mobs which is what im gonna do bilion times in the next 15 hours. . and thats assuming there was meaningful combat but the reality poe 2 combat is just clunky and unfun with intentionally adding alot of issues and problems to skills intentionally making them not feel good .. . ya that doesnt work..
add to this the phase of the game which is so slow both movement speed wise and attack speed. . and everything

4: insanely huge and awful layout maps which is hard and close to impossible to enjoy even if the rest of the game was perfect (which it isnt) and maps layout and size stays how it is i wouldnt play poe 2 .. .it feels awful it doesnt work well with the content in the game.. its just bad and unfun and this is something GGG knows from poe 1.

5: crafting and gearing progression.. . ya well.. do i need to even say anything about it? gearing progression in this game is the worst ive ever seen.

6: ailment and stun and ways to deal with them.. again just added stuff their entire intention is to feel bad.. idk but i dont think theres anyone who is playing 15 hours and feel good when he get stunned from every single hit and go like. .oh yes geting almost perma stunned for my 15hours gameplay feels so important. .

it goes on and on and on.. . i didnt even begin to talk about endgame lack of builds lack of options and choices .. . but you get my point.. but even if all that was perfect i personally wouldnt want 20-40 hours campain.

you said you would be ok with it but then you added that they would need to add alot of movement speed.. but Jonathan made it very very clear that this is not something hes going to do..

"

commonsensei#0217 wrote:

OK may be i should have chosen my words more wisely. I am not trying to tell you that at all. You play what every gives you joy. I was merely pointing our that the games are different and will largely have different audience. Obviously there will be an overlap. hey play both if like no one can stop you :-)

Secondly I think your expectations from "Your money" are misplaced. I say it with respect. Your money bought you countless hours of fun from poe1 that is it. Not the ownership of the company and its future direction. you did not spend it thinking oh you know there will be poe2 one day iam paying for that. you spent it coz you were having fun in that moment and u thought this skin looks cool etc etc. I doubt you have similar expectations from all services you pay for?

I am not very good with words but idea is there. So i request you to not take me other wise. I am not trying to antagonize you. merely stating the obvious.

I can understand where he's coming from. The fact of the matter is, this is just another example in a looooong line of examples of why 'innovation' has the potential to be THE most cancerous word in the gaming community.
In my opinion, yet not mine alone, you innovate only when necessary.
I lost count of the number of sequels to much beloved games i had to dismiss with much regret because of 'innovation'.
Sometimes things are good, even great maybe. Realizing that should be a simple thing but it clearly isn't :S Forcefully innovating a winner is just stupidity to me. And the main reason for that is because I can't even recall a single instance amongst those hundreds if not thousands of previous cases where almost all people who loved the original just basically wanted more of the same. Sure, you'll have some complaints here and there about not much having changed, but when they're done letting it out, they all go back to playing it some more. Most just want a new coat of paint, maybe some UI improvements, a few tweaks here and there, a new storyline and/or quests, etc etc. Simple as that.
Yet for some mysterious reason, whether it be companies having become too big to still work correctly, or barebonening products in the name of the almighty dollar, Some lead designer's personal ideas or whatever, each and every one keeps making this mistake over and over and over again.
To be frank, it's absolutely mind-boggling to me. BG3 for example needed innovation, sure. Larian Studios was making a sequel to a thirty year old game so then you kind of have to start from the ground up. But this incessent need of 'innovating' EVERYTHING for decades now, and always ending in that same result of utter disappointment for both designers and players is way, way past the point of being understandable.

I don't want to ditch POE2, but i'll probably have to and for me personally, it'll be the biggest disappointment of them all.

I guess that if it does keep going south, Larian'll be the last survivor of what once was a long list of respected studios. And props to them for that

"

Aim_High#3562 wrote:

"When we finished developing 3.0, we knew we couldn't extend path of exile campaign forever, adding more acts will make the game just too long before players got to maps"... "for years now we've been wanting to make a sequel to path of exile. The problem with that though is that sequels split a community between two products it's also hard for a sequel to compete with the amount of content and features that the original game has. We've just spent six years making expansions for path of exile, so imagine if we released path of exile 2 and it was just a bare campaign with none of that extra content. This would be a sad shell of an action RPG compared to the current state of path of exile."

~Chris Wilson
Exilecon 2019 Official PoE 2 Announcement.

Praise.

Well, it’s obvious to everyone that the honeymoon period is over. We’re supposed to be grinding right now, and while I had some fun in the trade league, it’s typical for me around this time in the league to start an SSF run. So, I leveled up my warrior and got lucky with a pair of gloves. These gloves had a good life roll and +2 to all melee skills. As soon as I got 3 exalts, I slammed them and got a completely awful trash suffixes: +2 life on hit and +10 mana on kill. After that, I logged off and haven’t wanted to play for 2 days already. Of course, it’s not a big deal, but that was just the last straw for me. I’ve had enough.

The thing is, randomness isn’t always on our side. I don’t know about you guys, but I want to have some control, even though I’m early in maps. If I’m trying my hardest to get the best gear (slamming transmutations until I have none left and checking vendors) and I still only have 1.8k life as a Titan, despite taking all the possible strength nodes on the passive skill tree, it feels awful. Honestly, the lack of control makes me not want to play the game at all, because everything is just a gamble over and over again. Yes, I know that around T15 maps it’ll be easier to "craft," but why does it have to be so bad early on? What’s the purpose? In PoE1, when you went into maps, you could at least craft the needed suffixes or get basic weapons with % increased physical damage just by using a recipe. Even in Diablo 2, which seems to be the biggest inspiration for GGG, your progression is much more controllable. Yes, you don’t have a crafting bench there, but at least you can get the runes you need, turn them into runewords—or whatever they’re called—and they’ll give you guaranteed bonuses. In PoE2, we don’t have anything like that at all.

Then there’s the passive skill tree. GGG tried to make it controllable, but it seems like we won’t see cluster jewels for a long time, and that makes the passive skill tree feel the same every time. Over and over again, especially early in SSF, it’s always the same. You have basically zero options. Honestly, I never felt this way in PoE1. Listen, early in the game, you grab resistance clusters, general damage clusters, and things like Resolute Technique. As you get better gear, your tree changes—you path toward endurance charges or whatever—then you get a cluster jewel, and it changes again. It’s constantly evolving, and you have an insane number of options for building your character. I mean, I even made a semi-aura-stacker slammer Chieftain after I got The Devouring Diadem as my SSF Chieftain in PoE1! In PoE2, that just doesn’t happen. You know you have to get strength, so you go for it. You might change one or two clusters depending on the content you’re interested in, but that’s it. The passive skill tree is insanely bad, and everything about it in PoE2 is worse than it was in PoE1. Everything.

"

grynnder#7112 wrote:

Well, it’s obvious to everyone that the honeymoon period is over. We’re supposed to be grinding right now, and while I had some fun in the trade league, it’s typical for me around this time in the league to start an SSF run. So, I leveled up my warrior and got lucky with a pair of gloves. These gloves had a good life roll and +2 to all melee skills. As soon as I got 3 exalts, I slammed them and got a completely awful trash suffixes: +2 life on hit and +10 mana on kill. After that, I logged off and haven’t wanted to play for 2 days already. Of course, it’s not a big deal, but that was just the last straw for me. I’ve had enough.

The thing is, randomness isn’t always on our side. I don’t know about you guys, but I want to have some control, even though I’m early in maps. If I’m trying my hardest to get the best gear (slamming transmutations until I have none left and checking vendors) and I still only have 1.8k life as a Titan, despite taking all the possible strength nodes on the passive skill tree, it feels awful. Honestly, the lack of control makes me not want to play the game at all, because everything is just a gamble over and over again. Yes, I know that around T15 maps it’ll be easier to "craft," but why does it have to be so bad early on? What’s the purpose? In PoE1, when you went into maps, you could at least craft the needed suffixes or get basic weapons with % increased physical damage just by using a recipe. Even in Diablo 2, which seems to be the biggest inspiration for GGG, your progression is much more controllable. Yes, you don’t have a crafting bench there, but at least you can get the runes you need, turn them into runewords—or whatever they’re called—and they’ll give you guaranteed bonuses. In PoE2, we don’t have anything like that at all.

Then there’s the passive skill tree. GGG tried to make it controllable, but it seems like we won’t see cluster jewels for a long time, and that makes the passive skill tree feel the same every time. Over and over again, especially early in SSF, it’s always the same. You have basically zero options. Honestly, I never felt this way in PoE1. Listen, early in the game, you grab resistance clusters, general damage clusters, and things like Resolute Technique. As you get better gear, your tree changes—you path toward endurance charges or whatever—then you get a cluster jewel, and it changes again. It’s constantly evolving, and you have an insane number of options for building your character. I mean, I even made a semi-aura-stacker slammer Chieftain after I got The Devouring Diadem as my SSF Chieftain in PoE1! In PoE2, that just doesn’t happen. You know you have to get strength, so you go for it. You might change one or two clusters depending on the content you’re interested in, but that’s it. The passive skill tree is insanely bad, and everything about it in PoE2 is worse than it was in PoE1. Everything.

you know i completely agree with the passive tree. there is no real way to branch out and be creative. at lvl 80 on war i had what i wanted and did not really have anything to move torwards, started taking stuff just because.

same on lich, only im lvl 60 on that character and ive taken everything on the tree i actually want. now just grabbing mandatory nodes like es to stun threshold. its not interesting at all.

there is a ton of elemental and minion stuff up there. but curse and chaos build. there is literally one way to build it. i just picked the nodes that made sense to take. looked up what others were doing out of curiosity later... yup they took the same stuff.

"

grynnder#7112 wrote:

Well, it’s obvious to everyone that the honeymoon period is over. We’re supposed to be grinding right now, and while I had some fun in the trade league, it’s typical for me around this time in the league to start an SSF run. So, I leveled up my warrior and got lucky with a pair of gloves. These gloves had a good life roll and +2 to all melee skills. As soon as I got 3 exalts, I slammed them and got a completely awful trash suffixes: +2 life on hit and +10 mana on kill. After that, I logged off and haven’t wanted to play for 2 days already. Of course, it’s not a big deal, but that was just the last straw for me. I’ve had enough.

The thing is, randomness isn’t always on our side. I don’t know about you guys, but I want to have some control, even though I’m early in maps. If I’m trying my hardest to get the best gear (slamming transmutations until I have none left and checking vendors) and I still only have 1.8k life as a Titan, despite taking all the possible strength nodes on the passive skill tree, it feels awful. Honestly, the lack of control makes me not want to play the game at all, because everything is just a gamble over and over again. Yes, I know that around T15 maps it’ll be easier to "craft," but why does it have to be so bad early on? What’s the purpose? In PoE1, when you went into maps, you could at least craft the needed suffixes or get basic weapons with % increased physical damage just by using a recipe. Even in Diablo 2, which seems to be the biggest inspiration for GGG, your progression is much more controllable. Yes, you don’t have a crafting bench there, but at least you can get the runes you need, turn them into runewords—or whatever they’re called—and they’ll give you guaranteed bonuses. In PoE2, we don’t have anything like that at all.

Then there’s the passive skill tree. GGG tried to make it controllable, but it seems like we won’t see cluster jewels for a long time, and that makes the passive skill tree feel the same every time. Over and over again, especially early in SSF, it’s always the same. You have basically zero options. Honestly, I never felt this way in PoE1. Listen, early in the game, you grab resistance clusters, general damage clusters, and things like Resolute Technique. As you get better gear, your tree changes—you path toward endurance charges or whatever—then you get a cluster jewel, and it changes again. It’s constantly evolving, and you have an insane number of options for building your character. I mean, I even made a semi-aura-stacker slammer Chieftain after I got The Devouring Diadem as my SSF Chieftain in PoE1! In PoE2, that just doesn’t happen. You know you have to get strength, so you go for it. You might change one or two clusters depending on the content you’re interested in, but that’s it. The passive skill tree is insanely bad, and everything about it in PoE2 is worse than it was in PoE1. Everything.

I'll agree to all of this and many more, with the sole exception of the campaign. I love the campaign. I found and still find it pretty impressive. ARPGs aren't about story and such, but i really liked the lore bits and all the different boss fights and zones. Then again, It has never bothered me a lot to replay the campaign in POE1 since i didnt make lots of different characters. I also don't mind the map layouts and doing a bit of backtracking here and there. My POE time is not defined by how many maps i can run in an hour to optimize currency gain or whatever. The campaign, or at least the first half we already got to see still feels like a labour of love to me.

However ... Something clearly happened after that because most of the other stuff is leagues underneath the quality and depth i've come to expect from GGG. And it sure is not meaningful. Games should be fun to play. In the past, Chris always had a thing for difficulty too, but at least the implementation was spot on in most cases.
This is just ... painful. Some stuff like the insane ascendancy runs is borderline sadistic when viewed within the context of ARPGs.
And as far as i'm aware, this IS still being marketed as one.
And as the previous poster explained well, so many things changed, yet were made significantly worse. A,d to refer to my own last post, please stop 'innovating' and just make a good game. That is the only vision that should matter

I really hope they can see that for themselves at some point, because i doubt that all the effort put in so far will lead to something that'll be enjoyed and remembered fondly.