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Leveling up take a god awful long time in this game, worse than poe1, and they still want to penalize your experience for death.
In poe1, the problem is bad enough that services such as 5 ways exist (it exist because death penalty is a problem, and leveling time too). If you run 8 mods map at 10mins, at lvl 98-99-100you probably get 1-1+% experience per map, which means it requires approx 16 maps for a 10% increase, 160 maps for a level up. 18 maps is about 3 hours. You lose about 2 hours of playtime everytime you die.
(Please don't come and say "play more efficiently", then you're 100% abused brainwashed that you think proper gaming is 100% min/maxxing efficiency brainless grind)
In Poe2??? It's arguably fucking worse. I dunno, a map is 20 mins at least, it takes forever to level up, and GGG still thinks about how the players should be penalized? Is losing the loot(if there is!) not penalty enough? 160 maps at 20mins each for 98-100?? God help me.
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Death Experience Penalty does nothing but wastes player's time, just as GGG does nothing but wastes time on thinking on how to punish the players while making the levelling experience as miserable as possible.
Cut back to Last Epoch, within 20 hours im already out of campaign and into Monolith(mapping), in 30 hours Im already lvl 75, fighting pinnacles soon. In poe2, it's 65 hours in, and Im nowhere close gathering enough fragments for Breach or anything. Not enough currency to really try crafting big, still have to rely on Gamble at level 86.
30 hours in LE, I have enough materials to try crafting some decent gears for my characters, even if I fail, I don't have to worry about being broke, because I know the materials can be grinded pretty consistently. There are progression I can aim for, room I can experiment with because I'm not poor like in poe2. There's a lot of things LE can still be improved for, but their design vision isn't cancerous like GGG. Never once I feel like this developer is trying to waste my time with some stupid penalty. Loot drops are so imbalanced that you kept on getting some lvl16 skill gems, meanwhile 100 hours at level 90 and people still doesn't even get Greater Jeweller Orb, at t15 6mods with rarity, and they still drop you a fucking Regal SHARDS.
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In poe2, every map they just want you to grind for what is just morsels of breadcrumbs. GGG love nothing more than to see the players wail in poverty.
Jonathan once said they want players to spend about 1 month in poe league, but he can't even say how long he expects people to finish poe2 campaign.... that's because he doesnt play it himself, it's your time he is wasting, not his.
Even Dark Souls doesn't penalize and waste the player's time like poe2. If I beat a boss, there is a definite clear loot, if I die, I lose nothing if I had levelled up, that's why the souls formula work, but not this. It also doesn't take forever to level up in Souls, if a player is weak, they can compensate for overlevelling to tackle the challenges, but not here.
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The sad part is, Poe2 underlying gameplay mechanics is better than all it's peers, it's movement, feedback and responsiveness. Unfortunately, it's held back by some CANCEROUS VISION that spends way too much time in thinking on how to punish the players rather than letting them have more fun by removing exp penalty and adding way more loot.
If, even currently, the campaign feels long to you especially after so many nerfs to difficulty, I don't know what to tell you.
Yes, current state of game has flaws but not necessarily in regards to difficulty of campaign (or, at least, no more).
With Dark Souls you said it yourself, if you level up, otherwise there is a high risk if you die and cannot make sure to reclaim the lost souls, you will end up losing a lot of "time".
By cutting out the experience penalty upon dying will make dying close to no consequence (without taking into consideration potential loot attributed to it), and let's not say there is something that helps you in this instance: Omens. And they are relatively cheap. Would be more to work if you would have been SSF, but doubt that's the case.
What kind of build you built and what kind of itemization you currently have that makes a map take 20 minutes? Really curious about that statement. Is any inconvenience always because of the state of the game, or rather some of our own design choices?
At the eve of the end
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Open your profile so we can see how much you've grinded. It is getting perplexing how many of the game's defenders have private profiles.
Yep, it's so common lol
Campaign is only a "part of the game" your first run through. Every next time its a mandatory chore you need to do before reaching the real game:endgame. Which is why arpgs don't aim to have a 72 hour campaign slogfest, because people will get burned out fast.
I literally would not care what the campaign is, what quests it has, none of it. I wouldn't care if every zone was just a straight line with an objective of "kill these monsters". It is completely meaningless to me after the first time doing it, and no matter how "interesting" it may be I will always zone out and just go through the motions while doing it. Cus its booooooriiiiing.
Sounds like a you problem. You progressed through the whole "game" not enjoying yourself, in a rush to get to the "end game", where you think all the fun is. GGG's stance on the matter is that the game itself should be fun and I'm glad that is their position
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Posted byGlowie_Zigger#5018on Apr 23, 2025, 6:57:04 AM
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Sounds like a you problem. You progressed through the whole "game" not enjoying yourself, in a rush to get to the "end game", where you think all the fun is. GGG's stance on the matter is that the game itself should be fun and I'm glad that is their position
Well then that's a colossal failure of game design. Because this game is not fun lol
Campaign will never not be a chore, and unless it takes like 2-3 hours or is skippable then people will always dread having to re-do it. Making it take literal eons just prevents people from experimenting with builds, less replayability=less playtime=less players=less profits. It's just bad.
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Posted byToforto#2372on Apr 23, 2025, 6:59:34 AM
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Sounds like a you problem. You progressed through the whole "game" not enjoying yourself, in a rush to get to the "end game", where you think all the fun is. GGG's stance on the matter is that the game itself should be fun and I'm glad that is their position
Well then that's a colossal failure of game design. Because this game is not fun lol
Campaign will never not be a chore, and unless it takes like 2-3 hours or is skippable then people will always dread having to re-do it. Making it take literal eons just prevents people from experimenting with builds, less replayability=less playtime=less players=less profits. It's just bad.
It's not fun for you because you have already decided how you are going to approach it before you have even started, and the game will not allow you to do that. You want them to let you skip the game, essentially. Why on earth that would ever be a thing, I don't know.
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Posted byGlowie_Zigger#5018on Apr 23, 2025, 7:01:47 AM
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Sounds like a you problem. You progressed through the whole "game" not enjoying yourself, in a rush to get to the "end game", where you think all the fun is. GGG's stance on the matter is that the game itself should be fun and I'm glad that is their position
I would put myself firmly in the "defender" camp but I don't really understand your position, or your definition of "fun".
The campaign is gorgeous, and varied, and it mostly doesn't fall into the unskippable exposition trap, but it is not rewarding for people who are returning to play the actual game, once you've got past act 2 boss it's very much like watching the same film over and over, there is no real gameplay other than running down corridors deleting mobs that can't compete
*With the exception of utzaal, that can still kick ass in act 3 because of all the chaos damage
Last edited by Strangehill#1736 on Apr 23, 2025, 7:09:38 AM
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Posted byStrangehill#1736on Apr 23, 2025, 7:05:59 AM
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It's not fun for you because you have already decided how you are going to approach it before you have even started, and the game will not allow you to do that. You want them to let you skip the game, essentially. Why on earth that would ever be a thing, I don't know.
Stop blaming the player, the game is just bad. Unfun. Everyone agrees.
This is supposed to be an ARPG, a power fantasy where you just kill mobs and get loot, and get even more when you do harder content. Which right now doesn't exist in PoE 2. People didn't sign up to play some cheap imitation that's someone's idea of a "soulslike" just because there's dodge roll in the game lol
There are countless problems with this game, many people have already given their feedback on this forum. If the devs care they will read all of it and make the game fun. No need for me to repeat it all, just gonna say that campaign bosses literally one-shotting players is unacceptable lmao this isn't some hardcore darksouls game where you're meant to retry a boss 100 times.
It's the game's fault for being bad,boring,bland and an unfun slog. You can't shift the blame onto players and be like "go play something else" "this game just isn't for you" etc. etc. those are not arguments.
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Posted byToforto#2372on Apr 23, 2025, 7:06:20 AM
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Stop blaming the player, the game is just bad. Unfun. Everyone agrees.
This is supposed to be an ARPG, a power fantasy where you just kill mobs and get loot, and get even more when you do harder content. Which right now doesn't exist in PoE 2. People didn't sign up to play some cheap imitation that's someone's idea of a "soulslike" just because there's dodge roll in the game lol
There are countless problems with this game, many people have already given their feedback on this forum. If the devs care they will read all of it and make the game fun. No need for me to repeat it all, just gonna say that campaign bosses literally one-shotting players is unacceptable lmao this isn't some hardcore darksouls game where you're meant to retry a boss 100 times.
It's the game's fault for being bad,boring,bland and an unfun slog. You can't shift the blame onto players and be like "go play something else" "this game just isn't for you" etc. etc. those are not arguments.
Everyone agrees except all the people who don't agree. There's as many people playing POE2 as last epoch right now. If you guys dont want me to say that your opinions seem like regurgitations of other peoples' maybe you shouldn't all keep repeating the same annoying catch phrases about "power fantasy" and "souls-like" in your *objective fact based criticisms*. I've already said multiple times that there are problems in the game, but you guys are such fanatics that if somebody doesn't 100% agree with you that literally everything about this game is terrible, then they are a fanboy.
And if you are redoing a boss 100 times that is a genuine skill issue. This was a thing as far back as Diablo II, and back then you had to run back in to the instance naked and try to retrieve your corpse with negative resistances and no armour. You guys are just used to being coddled and insist that anything with difficulty is trying to be a souls game. It's stupid.
Last edited by Glowie_Zigger#5018 on Apr 23, 2025, 7:12:06 AM
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Posted byGlowie_Zigger#5018on Apr 23, 2025, 7:11:26 AM
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campaign bosses literally one-shotting players
lol what try paying even the slightest bit of attention
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Posted byStrangehill#1736on Apr 23, 2025, 7:12:40 AM
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"You guys are just used to being coddled and insist that anything with difficulty is trying to be a souls game. It's stupid."
This
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Posted byFrankenhooker#0737on Apr 23, 2025, 7:16:49 AM
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campaign bosses literally one-shotting players
lol what try paying even the slightest bit of attention
I shouldn't have to go full lock-in mode in the campaign. This isn't dark souls, this isn't a fighting game. This isn't even Devil May Cry. This is supposed to be a fun arpg. Nobody wants that kind of stressful non-stop vigilant gameplay. If they did, the Hardcore option when creating a character is right there.
If a player dies to a boss in act 2 like 10 times and quits out of frustration because they are literally soft-locked and can't progress or farm gear, that is a failure of the game's design. And for every person that has voiced their reason for quitting, there are 30 more who are silently uninstalling.
In conclusion, PoE 2 Bad.
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Posted byToforto#2372on Apr 23, 2025, 7:17:25 AM
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