Should GGG balance around them?

where does one come up with

"

In any game that punishes you, players will always gravitate towards not getting punished

???

its pure common sense.

if u try taking a cookie, i slap your hand. you pull your hand.

then you observe people asking nicely. you do the same, i dont slap your hand.

thats how builds become prevalent.

the more you punish players the more you force them into using hyper optimized builds.

did you not play poe1? starter builds are a thing. you get punished for playing a build that doesnt go online until you have certain gear so you learn to circumvent it

the entire premise of poe1's endgame which revolves around uber pinnacles does NOT involve too much of avoiding damage.

the BEST way is to out dps or be strong enough to facetank all damage.

people do this because the punishment for losing is xp loss AND possibly loss of the invite which costs a deal.

have you never looked at a key/invite, then tell yourself, hmmm i ll do this later when i m stronger or when i've leveled up?

thats exactly how players try to avoid being punished.

"

AliquamGames#5952 wrote:

Boss taking 20 minutes for average player is straight untruth. I can imagine only heavy support focused specialised builds taking that long with bosses.

It is not about time, it is about dying. Would I go to the boss if my chance of dying 10%? No, I'm not dumb to lose hours worth of experience.
In Dark Souls you don't lose anything, but in PoE you are loosing a lot with every death.

Hilarious. if anything, they balance around the hipster streamers who make a lot of money playing the game all day every day.

I have not once understand people who struggle in PoE.

Nobody forces you to make your "Own unique snowflake'esque build".

Builds are out there. Pick a skill you like, look up a buildguide. Enjoy the crap out of the game!

It really is that simple.

I have never made a single build in PoE 1 and had like what? 3-4 years of solid fun and entertainment?

Also made "my own" in PoE 2. Works ok ish. Bit slow as that was my first and undergeared toon and likely made tree mistakes but hey...It was definitely more satisfying and easier to do so than in PoE 2. By a mile. Also understanding the tree was a lot easier. And I am a casual player in his late 30s. Never bothered much with geeking out with ARPG stats. Just watched a couple of videos for explanations, get bored half way through the lectures and then just follow a buildguide and have tons of fun seeing the build come together and eventually give it my own tiny tweaks here and there.

PoE 2 from my honest pov is A LOT easier and welcoming to get into for new players than PoE 1.

"

Fenoch#0462 wrote:

PoE 2 from my honest pov is A LOT easier and welcoming to get into for new players than PoE 1.

Because PoE 1 lacks a proper in-game tutorial. PoE 2 is imo actually more user-unfriendly than PoE 1 is, because the inconsistencies are just too damn high.

"

Fenoch#0462 wrote:

I have not once understand people who struggle in PoE.

Nobody forces you to make your "Own unique snowflake'esque build".

Builds are out there. Pick a skill you like, look up a buildguide. Enjoy the crap out of the game!

It really is that simple.

I have never made a single build in PoE 1 and had like what? 3-4 years of solid fun and entertainment?

Also made "my own" in PoE 2. Works ok ish. Bit slow as that was my first and undergeared toon and likely made tree mistakes but hey...It was definitely more satisfying and easier to do so than in PoE 2. By a mile. Also understanding the tree was a lot easier. And I am a casual player in his late 30s. Never bothered much with geeking out with ARPG stats. Just watched a couple of videos for explanations, get bored half way through the lectures and then just follow a buildguide and have tons of fun seeing the build come together and eventually give it my own tiny tweaks here and there.

PoE 2 from my honest pov is A LOT easier and welcoming to get into for new players than PoE 1.

Those build guides are made by people that either understand obvious interactions or by those who make "snowflake'esque builds" that end up being pretty good. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the time, the person who created the build won't even be credited by the content creator who popularizes it.

Some people are okay with following whatever X streamer says about Y, others are looking to explore new things, make innovative builds, and overcome the content without following the pack.

It's okay for everyone to enjoy the same game, but it doesn't mean we all have to play it the same way.

"

Fenoch#0462 wrote:

I have not once understand people who struggle in PoE.

Nobody forces you to make your "Own unique snowflake'esque build".

Builds are out there. Pick a skill you like, look up a buildguide. Enjoy the crap out of the game!

It really is that simple.

I have never made a single build in PoE 1 and had like what? 3-4 years of solid fun and entertainment?

Also made "my own" in PoE 2. Works ok ish. Bit slow as that was my first and undergeared toon and likely made tree mistakes but hey...It was definitely more satisfying and easier to do so than in PoE 2. By a mile. Also understanding the tree was a lot easier. And I am a casual player in his late 30s. Never bothered much with geeking out with ARPG stats. Just watched a couple of videos for explanations, get bored half way through the lectures and then just follow a buildguide and have tons of fun seeing the build come together and eventually give it my own tiny tweaks here and there.

PoE 2 from my honest pov is A LOT easier and welcoming to get into for new players than PoE 1.

i actually enjoy reading about people trying out their own build. you've actually experienced it to an extent. i think you made a typo saying its much more satisfying and easier than in poe 1 (not poe2).

and in poe2 it definitely is easier and more welcoming for players to try out making your own builds.

the thing is, you're actually almost answering your own "question".

you say you dont understand why people struggle in POE1 and how people shouldnt want to make their own snowflakesque build.

you are so used to poe1 that you've missed something that was in your face in poe2.

the part where you mentioned how it was satisfying building your own build.

this is what players wanted so badly in poe1. poe1 simply evolved into a behemoth where new players would likely fail if they made their own build. me myself personally i've cleared 99.5% of poe content that i bother clearing with a self made build that only worked after 10 years because ggg buffed melee. it was shit tier before that. but you know what? it was satisfying as hell to see how far i could push it.

poe1 is simply not a game for people to "make your own builds".

there are a huge number of players that prefer to make their own builds. when you say snowflake-esque i can imagine you're saying it from a condescending pov where you see these people acting as entitled folk who expect to be able to do the toughest content without a proper build.

i understand this sentiment, and i would say its something inherent to POE1. you simply cant clear everything on a scuffed build. theres really NO ROOM for inefficiency.

so to that extent i actually agree with you that players shouldnt expect to go far with their own build in poe1.

tho that said. in POE2 its different. you yourself said how you could struggle and made mistakes yet you found it satisfying. that is what POE2 is trying to do,

which is make a game where players can organically learn to make their build better and actually make their own builds.

for sure builds do exist right now in poe2. but you would realize that the difficulty of the game is in such a state that if you're skilled enough, players COULD make their own undergeared builds work. maybe theyre allowed less mistakes, maybe they take longer. but they CAN clear content

this is a vast departure from poe1, where in poe2 a good build lets you have fun and breeze thru the game while in poe1 a good build IS the minimum requirement.

i think you're actually on the verge of learning to enjoyment of making your own build.

and to that i would actually implore you to give it a go. youtube explanations are indeed a bore. i started poe2 using a melee ranger that does nasty huge ass poisons. its currently reaching 90 but i felt that i could do the same but better using a titan and rerolled. poe2 is the game that allows you to do this.

if you dont understand something, dont bore yourself with a yt vid. just ask a friend or some helpful bloke and they'd explain it to you. in fact most of the things i know come from within poe2 tooltips themselves.

you're robbing yourself from half of the fun by following a guide in poe2.

i find it ironic that there are a lot of people who follow build guides who tend to be the first to talk about how easy the game is and how they're bored of the game and some would even condescend others for saying the game is too hard.

following a build guide in poe2 is like playing the game on training wheels. and its really ironic whenever someone whos playing the game on easy mode rants about others finding the game difficult and asks others to play the game on easy mode.

i would agree with you if you tell people to follow builds in poe1. just not in poe2.

"

Fenoch#0462 wrote:

I have not once understand people who struggle in PoE.

Nobody forces you to make your "Own unique snowflake'esque build".

Builds are out there. Pick a skill you like, look up a buildguide. Enjoy the crap out of the game!

It really is that simple.

I have never made a single build in PoE 1 and had like what? 3-4 years of solid fun and entertainment?

Also made "my own" in PoE 2. Works ok ish. Bit slow as that was my first and undergeared toon and likely made tree mistakes but hey...It was definitely more satisfying and easier to do so than in PoE 2. By a mile. Also understanding the tree was a lot easier. And I am a casual player in his late 30s. Never bothered much with geeking out with ARPG stats. Just watched a couple of videos for explanations, get bored half way through the lectures and then just follow a buildguide and have tons of fun seeing the build come together and eventually give it my own tiny tweaks here and there.

PoE 2 from my honest pov is A LOT easier and welcoming to get into for new players than PoE 1.

why would I ever play someone else's build in a sandbox game? I'd rather not play the game lol

99% of the build guides are terrible anyway

I don't understand the debate around build guides vs finding your own build and this build then not being as good.

Not every build can be equally strong. Some "builds" are simply bad and do not work. Or if not that extreme, just have lower damage and/or lower survivability. And that is ok. Different builds perform differently.

Every player is free to decide to try their own build. If they expect every build they try to perform as well as tested, well thought out builds from guides, then they are simply wrong.

It is a limitation a player puts on themself in order to be able to try their own way, like SSF. If this does not work as well, the correct way is to gather more information about mechanics, think how the build can be improved, try something else, and so on. The wrong way would be to complain that the build is not performing.

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Every player is free to decide to try their own build.

Yeah, if the player have one year to study game Wiki about one million skill gems and one million skills, interacting by misterious ways which are not described in game.