Chill guys. let GGG cook

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

In PoE it was always that everything you do comes with some investment that can be lost. You are not meant to brute force your way through content. This is not that type of game. In a game like PoE there are hard gear checks, there is a possibility to fail and lose something. This is part of this type of game and a core principal.

And that's also wrong imo.
It should be like that: if you pass the gear check, you can kill the boss in under a minute. If you don't, you have an option to do boss mechanics for 5-10-15 minutes and still be able to kill the boss provided you have the skill to execute the fight. Right now PoE2 players lean into deleting bosses before they do anything and that's not ideal.
But knowing GGG they would probably make it so that top builds will require 2-3 minutes to kill the bosses and non-meta builds will stand no chance whatsoever.

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Pathological#1188 wrote:

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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Pathological#1188 wrote:

If I walk in to a dinner party and smell wafts of fecal matter, rotting tissue and laxative, I'm not going to just "let them cook" and eat the result.

thats a good example of your bias leaking into negativity.

just because you dont like it doesnt mean its automatically bad. some men are attracted to men. its not for me but i dont shit on them.

speaking of fecal matter.

durians smell like literal shit but good durians are practically sweet custard in fruit form.

absolutely delicious.

Good for you? I'm not here to advocate for other people, I'm here to advocate for what I want, the same as you or anyone else. I don't have a vested interest in what a random man wants in his anus; I do have a vested interest in what type of game PoE2 is. That is the most non-sequiter analogy I think I've ever seen.

advocating for what you want is fine. but the difference is how you package your ideas.

saying you think something is literal shit is different from stating something is literal shit. one is an opinion which is fine, another is a statement that debatable.

you seem intelligent, yet you seem to be ignorant of this distinction or just purely dont care. in both cases, the outcome is the same where people would quickly just dismiss you as being a hater, and your words simply lose meaning.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

GGG on the other hand follows data. They take a look at feedback and analyze it. Then come to their own conclusion based on facts, instead of fomo. But some players don't want to accept that and have this delusion that they know better because of confirmation bias.

If GGG comes to the conclusion that MF is too impactful, there will be changes. But once again, based on data and facts.

as someone who played weak builds in poe1 for 10 years and running non juiced maps and only started running properly juiced maps in settlers due to the massive melee buffs, the distinction between the 2 is really night and day where with fully juiced t16s i could sometimes get my gold quota for the day in 5-10 maps, while if i used my regular "safely rolled" magic maps or just plain white t16s i would get 3-10k gold per map and needed 20-30 maps to fulfill my quota.

in poe2 running non juiced maps sometimes get you ZERO maps in return.

to me my biggest problem with mf is at the "lower range". if ggg wants more players to enjoy the game, the game must be less punishing. making mf as a requirement to enjoy the game kills casuals. build diversity is reduced as players need to optimize and squeeze every bit of MF as possible.

i m always about gaps. gaps between the strong and weak should exist but it shouldnt be too wide.

mf is a good way to introduce large wide gaps.

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_ZLoBny_#7128 wrote:

And that's also wrong imo.
It should be like that: if you pass the gear check, you can kill the boss in under a minute. If you don't, you have an option to do boss mechanics for 5-10-15 minutes and still be able to kill the boss provided you have the skill to execute the fight.

I am confused. That is exactly how it currently is. There are no enrage timers on bosses. There is no time limit.

The hard gear checks are mostly for maps. Because of the huge amount of enemies in maps, with their projectiles, leaps and spells you have constant incoming damage that you either need to tank or have enough damage to kill them fast enough.

Bosses can be done with skill. But there is also the option to completely outgear a boss and just delete it.

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_ZLoBny_#7128 wrote:

But knowing GGG they would probably make it so that top builds will require 2-3 minutes to kill the bosses and non-meta builds will stand no chance whatsoever.

In the interview they stated that the goal is, when you first encounter the boss it should be a 1-3 minute fight. So you can at least see the mechanics. That leaves the option open to outgear and delete the boss.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

in poe2 running non juiced maps sometimes get you ZERO maps in return.

to me my biggest problem with mf is at the "lower range". if ggg wants more players to enjoy the game, the game must be less punishing. making mf as a requirement to enjoy the game kills casuals. build diversity is reduced as players need to optimize and squeeze every bit of MF as possible.

i m always about gaps. gaps between the strong and weak should exist but it shouldnt be too wide.

mf is a good way to introduce large wide gaps.

I disagree. Why do you feel MF is a requirement?

It gives you about 10% more currency and does not effect map drops. With very high investment you get maybe 15% more currency. A casual player does not even notice that difference. If a casual player farms 10 Divine Orbs within a month/year or 11 is not that big of a difference.

Every time the punishment for failing a map comes up the first question in my head is, why is the player dying. We are not meant to die in a map. If we do, something went wrong. The game is balanced around not dying in maps. So what can I as a player do differently to not die. That is my approach and so far it is working fine.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

after looking thru their latest vid on what they want to add into the next patch i would say its pretty good.

it helps EVERYONE so EVERYONE can enjoy the game more.

as for those of you playing melee or some other certain thing is not listed in the patch.

chill!

pretty sure ggg will address a lot of the concerns later.

as a reminder, this is EA after all.

why isnt ggg looking into this or that?

if by the time poe2 officially releases if ggg hasnt looked into what you mention, then truly ggg doesnt care about that issue.

but for now, we're all still playing an EA game.

if you dont enjoy paying to be a game tester, take a chill pill and play other games.

its easy to feel frustrated that "ggg is not doing anything" but put yourself in GGG's shoes. they know theres 1001 issues in the game. they need to prioritize and fix things that they believe are more critical to the game.

feel free to complain and provide feedback. but also remember that cooking takes time.

also please dont bother bringing up stuff like "10 years still cooking". starcraft 1 took roughly 10 years before it was deemed "balanced" by most people. and thats a game involving units with fixed numbers. diablo likes have so many different number variations.

let them cook

This is the exact mindset that I have. I'm spending my time testing different ideas. I'm not as interested in "beating the game" as I am in testing skills, builds, interactions, and systems. I've run into some frustrating things or dead ends, but it's been a pleasure to test a lot of things out.

this thread reminds me of this gold

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auspexa#1404 wrote:

this thread reminds me of this gold

Remember when we could only get games that were fully released? The early access system that has only gotten popular in the past handful of years has allowed people to play games that are not deemed finished for a full release. If something isn't necessarily up to snuff right now, that's fine, you get to experience it in all of it's unfinished glory, and possibly influence the design of the finished product.

You never know, it could be a nugget of gold that that person is going to pinch onto that plate! haha

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

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exsea#1724 wrote:

in poe2 running non juiced maps sometimes get you ZERO maps in return.

to me my biggest problem with mf is at the "lower range". if ggg wants more players to enjoy the game, the game must be less punishing. making mf as a requirement to enjoy the game kills casuals. build diversity is reduced as players need to optimize and squeeze every bit of MF as possible.

i m always about gaps. gaps between the strong and weak should exist but it shouldnt be too wide.

mf is a good way to introduce large wide gaps.

I disagree. Why do you feel MF is a requirement?

It gives you about 10% more currency and does not effect map drops. With very high investment you get maybe 15% more currency. A casual player does not even notice that difference. If a casual player farms 10 Divine Orbs within a month/year or 11 is not that big of a difference.

Every time the punishment for failing a map comes up the first question in my head is, why is the player dying. We are not meant to die in a map. If we do, something went wrong. The game is balanced around not dying in maps. So what can I as a player do differently to not die. That is my approach and so far it is working fine.

you're free to disagree, different people have different experiences and different goals when playing the game.

personally i see map sustain is bad when i dont juice, when i do juice, i get 2-4 t15s. when i dont juice i sometimes have even 0 maps in return and this is from a t15.

thats my personal experience. getting mf becomes a requirement as ideally maps need to be sustainable to enjoy the game.

in my worst experience in poe2, my gear was bad and i failed to address it early enough so i went from t13 and lost all my maps because i kept failing them and failed them without getting replacements, i was knocked all the way down to t3/t4 and had to slowly climb back.

for sure thats my fault, i went to trade. got significantly stronger. running maps "normal" usually gave bad results and sometimes gave lower tier maps or non at all. running magic maps tend to give some maps in return, but its a lot of rng where you can get a bad streak of worse/no maps.

does mf really not affect map drops? i really dont know. i just know that if i dont atleast get a map rare, theres no guarantee i'd sustain the map.

i would also say might be using bad terminologies as to me i m grouping all forms of juicing as mf.

also, theres plenty of people who complain about the same thing that i do, in fact some of my irl friends experience the same.

i wont argue on this with you if you feel its good then i guess rng is in your favour. but for the other players the experience may be different.

zero mf on gear

mostly doing alc+go and not even using tablets most of the time

and I have more than 100 T15 maps in my stash

just kill some map bosses