The current state of "Crafting" Is killing my enjoyment in this otherwise amazing game that I love

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Karr285#4892 wrote:

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SoujiroSeta#2390 wrote:

The problem with PoE 1 crafting is that filter out 99% of ground loot.

You get 1 base and spam orbs/bestiary/essence on it ad infinitum.

You CANNOT have PoE 1 crafting and expect people to pick up ground loot.

They want you to pick up ground loot in PoE 2. They want you to actually look at the ground and be excited for white/blue/rare bases.

This is not the case in PoE 1.

So what do you want. Filter out 99% of ground loot (PoE 1) or for ground loot to be an inherent part of the game no matter what stage you're at(PoE 2)?

Odd, cuz I am not excited at all for good bases.

This is my "excitement" atm. Pick up base, toss xmute and Aug, nothing hit toss loot. If good regal it, no hit toss.
Did hit? Is it a high tier rolls? No, toss. Maybe 1 out of every 200 items is worth exalting and they end up bricking too.

Save every exalt/divne, trade for items on trade site to get my exciting item.

This is my experience as well. Good post

Well grinding gear games is truly making use grind crafting for that gear... I brick 99% of everything I get lol sigh...

I will keep saying this until people hear it:

A combination of PoE 1 and PoE 2 Essence systems, with a little bit more, would be perfect.

Keep the idea of level-banded tiers from PoE 1. Whispering Essence rolls level 1-14 affixes, Weeping rolls level 15-24, etc. This means that low-level essences get used on low-level bases and you don't feel like you're wasting them, and higher-level essences never give you lower-level affixes.

Combine that with the broader categories from PoE 2 rather than the specific "you will get this specific affix" of PoE 1, and expand on the regular and greater Essences from PoE 2. Basically have essences that act like different orb types (transmute/augment, regal/chaos, exalt). Call it Least, Lesser, Greater.

Finally, make them a lot more plentiful. Forget having them drop from special mobs you see once in a blue moon. Make them at least as common as their equivalent orbs, and moreso for the lower-level Lesser and Greater Essences.

Now you have an actual incentive to craft leveling gear. Those Whispering Essences aren't worth a goddamn thing because they can't be used to craft endgame gear, so go ahead and spam the shit out of them.

Yes, frankly after the early game (as in, very early, like act 2-3) the magic orbs shouldn't even be a thing anymore. At that point they should be replaced with a way to get *exactly* the modifier you want (with a random roll on the range) - this can be done by unlocking a crafting bench that uses those orbs as currency so they don't need to add yet more pointless currencies.

That also means essences are not required anymore.

Then as players progress further they can unlock recipes for deterministic third, fourth, fifth, sixth modifiers that use the yellow item orbs as currency.

Those recipes can also be unlocks with the baseline this is gonna be good modifiers being immediate (spell damage, physical damage, elemental damage, etc.) and the more specfic ones (damage type damage, light radius, thorns, etc.) being dropped.

The orbs are not worthless before the player has access to the deterministic recipes, and you can add deterministic crafting without having to add yet more currencies. You can keep Vaal and Chaos orbs for the gamblers that have an item that is perfect and could be better or an item that is almost perfect respectively.

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DatonKallandor#0939 wrote:

Yes, frankly after the early game (as in, very early, like act 2-3) the magic orbs shouldn't even be a thing anymore. At that point they should be replaced with a way to get *exactly* the modifier you want (with a random roll on the range) - this can be done by unlocking a crafting bench that uses those orbs as currency so they don't need to add yet more pointless currencies.

That also means essences are not required anymore.

Then as players progress further they can unlock recipes for deterministic third, fourth, fifth, sixth modifiers that use the yellow item orbs as currency.

Those recipes can also be unlocks with the baseline this is gonna be good modifiers being immediate (spell damage, physical damage, elemental damage, etc.) and the more specfic ones (damage type damage, light radius, thorns, etc.) being dropped.

The orbs are not worthless before the player has access to the deterministic recipes, and you can add deterministic crafting without having to add yet more currencies. You can keep Vaal and Chaos orbs for the gamblers that have an item that is perfect and could be better or an item that is almost perfect respectively.

Making it too easy to get the exact item you want kills a looter game. PoE 1 lets you add one and only one enchantment via the crafting bench (unless you use a Tempering/Tailoring Orb, but that eats up an extra affix slot.) That's about right.

There needs to be a certain degree of "friction" between what you want and what you have or players hit all their goals, remove all the challenge from the game, and quit immediately. Currently PoE 2 has too much friction, while PoE 1 has a slapdash combination of systems that make it possible to reach about the right level, but it takes too long and requires interacting with too many league mechanics to get there.

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Karr285#4892 wrote:

Odd, cuz I am not excited at all for good bases.

This is my "excitement" atm. Pick up base, toss xmute and Aug, nothing hit toss loot. If good regal it, no hit toss.
Did hit? Is it a high tier rolls? No, toss. Maybe 1 out of every 200 items is worth exalting and they end up bricking too.

Save every exalt/divne, trade for items on trade site to get my exciting item.

You just proved my point. The current system makes it so GROUND LOOT IS STILL SOUGHT AFTER.

PoE 1 players have been asking ggg to "make people want to pick up loot in PoE 1" while simultaneously wanting the crafting to remain the same.

I've come to realise most people don't seem to understand where what they are saying will lead to. They can't see far ahead enough to understand the result of their demands. Then when the inevitable happens they act surprised.

Whether you are excited about picking up multiple bases or not is irrelevant. The only question that matters is "Do you want people to pick up ground loot? YES or NO"

PoE 1 crafting = No
PoE 2 crafting = Yes

The great thing about this is if ggg sticks to their guns PoE 1 still exists and you can pick up 1 base and craft on it endlessly.

I proved your point by ending my statement with I'll just buy the item off the trade site???

That's an odd conclusion.

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Xenus_Paradox#7530 wrote:

Making it too easy to get the exact item you want kills a looter game. PoE 1 lets you add one and only one enchantment via the crafting bench (unless you use a Tempering/Tailoring Orb, but that eats up an extra affix slot.) That's about right.

There needs to be a certain degree of "friction" between what you want and what you have or players hit all their goals, remove all the challenge from the game, and quit immediately. Currently PoE 2 has too much friction, while PoE 1 has a slapdash combination of systems that make it possible to reach about the right level, but it takes too long and requires interacting with too many league mechanics to get there.

All the other games where crafting works that are doing perfectly fine show that's not true.

If anything kills a looter game it's having trade so you can just get the best in slot item without looting anything.

A good crafting system is entirely self-contained and means what the *player loots* feeds directly into the player items. When the objectively correct way to itemize is "don't craft, don't loot, just buy it off the auction house" your looting system is broken.

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Karr285#4892 wrote:

I proved your point by ending my statement with I'll just buy the item off the trade site???

That's an odd conclusion.

You proved my point when you said

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Pick up base, toss xmute and Aug, nothing hit toss loot. If good regal it, no hit toss.

Then you repeat that same process on another base YOU PICKED UP FROM THE GROUND. That's called making people look at and pick up loot on the ground.

You never ever do this in PoE 1. Ever. You get 1 base and thats it.

You didn't answer my question:

Do you want people to pick up ground loot? Yes or No?

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SoujiroSeta#2390 wrote:

So what do you want. Filter out 99% of ground loot (PoE 1) or for ground loot to be an inherent part of the game no matter what stage you're at(PoE 2)?

Eh, I don't think I've ever played an ARPG where 99% of ground loot wasn't more or less irrelevant by the endgame. Maybe the first Diablo? By endgame I'd typically hunt only for very specific items, because let's face it, looking up hundreds of junk pieces in hope of seeing some theoretically possible minor upgrade is exhausting and boring. I think it's natural at that point.

PoE1 is a bit of an extreme case due to sheer amount of junk dropped and because special (fractured/influenced/etc) bases exist, but the principle is the same. No one picks up anything because chances for it being good are just too slim for the effort (especially with unidentified items being a thing).

Trying to drastically change that feels like "reinventing the wheel" - we DO care about ground loot in PoE2 (well, more than in PoE1 at least), but if the price for that is tedious, frustrating and ultimately inefficient system we got, give me PoE1 crafting any day.

And obviously there's no need to bring back PoE system as a whole. Essences (old style), fossils, harvest, good old bench - just one of these would make overall experience feel much better than it is now. And if they really want people to pick up floor loot, they can always add something akin to Last Epoch's "forge potential", so infinite tinkering with one base is no longer possible.