GGG... here's the basic concept on how to make a game FUN... you're welcome!!!
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this is a very good post, its almost identical to ryhkkers video on YT about this topic.
notice all the responses are personal attacks...it means your right and they have no counter argument. |
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" I agree on the point that a game should not feel like work, that being said Path of Exile 2 does not feel like work. If you think a GAME feels like work, you're actively playing it in a manner that is antithetical to the way the game is intended to be played, and you're doing it badly. " Keeping the players power level at any level is artificial from the foundational level. Keeping a players power level high is artificial because the developers have decided that's where they want it, keeping it at a middle ground is artifical because that's where the developers want it, keeping it low is artificial because that is where the developers want it. Your argument falters at its very start because you fail to grasp the fact that player power is moderated by the developers and therefore is always artificial. Putting that aside, keeping it low is the very definition of difficulty from Merriam-webster (the premire website for definitions and one of the most trusted sources for definitions): The quality or state of being hard to do, deal with, or understand: The quality or state of being difficult. To say that keeping your power low is not difficulty is to fail to grasp the very basic and fundamental definition of the word. For instance: Giving a boss twice the amount of health it already has is a form of difficulty, you may not like it and may feel that it's a cheap way to make something feel more difficult, but it is, at its fundamental level, difficulty. A better way to phrase this would be to say that "I feel that keeping player power low is a cheap and lazy way of increasing difficulty", which would be an accurate statement and one I could get behind, however by stating that it is not difficulty you show your lack of knowledge and capability to understand basic concepts. " There is no 'might' when it comes to whether fun is different from person to person, at its very core the concept of fun is almost always different from person to person. Some people enjoy the same things, while someone else finds that exact same thing boring, repetitive, or both, thereby demonstrating you yet again fail to grasp a basic concept. Even the "base source" as you describe it changes from person to person. Some people love how hard and frustratingly difficult Fromsoft's boss designs are, others do not. Some people love Super Mario on the NES, others do not. Some people love Baldur's Gate 3, others do not. the "base source" of fun differs from person to person because everyone finds different things more or less enjoyable than another person. Some enjoy fighting bosses, while others enjoy watching packs of mobs explode from a click of a button, while still others enjoy being able to sit back and let others kill things for them (whether that be through minions or friends), and still others prefer platformers and yet still others prefer platformers that don't have enemies at all, while still further some people enjoy games that have no enemies at all like Journey. What you find fun is not going to be the same as everyone else, if you aren't having fun with the game look instead at what you're doing in the game and see if that isn't why you're not having fun or if the game itself just doesn't call to you. If the game itself does not call to you, if the game itself is not fun for you, then find another game to play instead of bitching about how YOU aren't having fun and how the entire game needs to change to cater to YOU. " This game is an ARPG, that stands for Action Role-playing Game. This is not a genre that's known for, or cares much about, exploration in and of itself. The game is about action, not exploration. If you want a game based around exploration, there are a plethora of titles out there dedicated to exactly that (look at literally any JRPG). " When it comes to 'discovery' you're clearly looking to discover things via exploration, that much is obvious within the first 2 sentences of these 3 paragraphs. As mentioned before, this game is NOT about exploration in the sense you're wanting, this game is about build exploration. If you want to discover builds, then just simply do not look up guides it really isn't that hard. The game actually does a phenomenal job of telling the player how everything works in game, significantly moreso than Path of Exile 1 which tells you almost nothing. Because of this, in your first paragraph alone you have demonstrated the lack of any capability to distinguish between what something does and doesn't do. You say you "can't beat it by playing it", but that is just blatantly false information. I played through this game on several characters without ever looking up any guides and still haven't to this day. I've beaten every campaign boss without help and learned every single move they use and how to avoid them on my own. So this is, again, blatantly false information. You absolutely CAN beat this game by playing it. You also say you HAVE to go back to the vendors and can never find enough 'sustain' on the ground, and this is again blatantly false information. I have rarely used vendors and have not had any issues since I actually trade with players and not NPCs. Also, shocker in a Multiplayer game, you have to ACTUALLY interact with other players, Who'd of though. If you want to not engage with that, either just don't do it or simply play Solo Self Found. " Your next paragraph is just.... fucking awful dude. From its very start you give a terrible fucking example; finding keys to a car on the ground would not be exciting, for if you just take them and make no attempt at returning them not only are you actually committing theft, but it would be a felony level theft. You also deprive the person who rightfully owns that car the ability to use it, so from the outset your example is fucking terrible. Putting aside your terrible example; How is needing to play the game and interact with other players equal to a job? Have you ever had an actual blue collar job in your life? Because I've had multiple, and no game I have ever played in 30+ years has ever come anywhere close to feeling like a job. Even the most grind-intensive games don't feel like a job, they feel like a chore or laborious but not a fucking JOB. If you don't want to interact with other people, go play either SSF or a single-player game. Path of Exile, both 1 and 2, are multiplayer games, and asking players in these multiplayer games to interact with other players isn't "essentially telling them to do what they do in real life working their everyday job..." " Where do I even begin here? Your examples continue to be the worst thing in existence. Doing a thousand pushups on its own is the reward, if you don't think that, that is because you've never done a thousand pushups. A thousand pushups is more difficult to do than literally fighting every single boss in this game at the exact same time. You do the pushups because it makes you physically stronger, makes your body healthier, and gives you an adrenaline rush you'll only understand if you've actually gone and worked out once in your entire life. 3) Giving power to the player " I'm not reading the rest of this because you have no idea what the fuck you're even talking about. If you don't think players have power, let me link you just the first 7 videos that popped up when you search "Path of exile 2 one shot build" into youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhSuW3_jlVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftWumGZYTjo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsESbCP_oAA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjyNAOXmZbU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTUptU8tvys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ8qhGhfl00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZqakkH8Rl4 Last edited by xxxkituxxx#0487 on Dec 31, 2024, 1:34:56 PM
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" +1 I think your post has some merits but it lacks expansion on the section above. To wit. POE1 is a power fantasy game which is actually very easy to get into from knowing nothing about it. Your first few characters might not be top tier effective but they will at least be functional and able to complete the campaign smoothly and (importantly) without needing to resort to trading to overcome lack of gear and gems etc. However the difference between POE1 and POE2 is that POE2 attempts to be "gritty and realistic" to the point where one could argue that POE2 is made deliberately unfair because life is unfair. A bit of a cynical outloook on life but it is what it is. The only remaining question is: What kind of game do the majority of POE players want to play? It would be very interesting to see if GGG were to conduct a poll on all the various points of contention so we can see what the players really want. |
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Why is it always the folks that haven't been around long or supported the game that don't want it to change for the better?
Visit my Steam profile here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheBaconOverlord/
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My thoughts.
The game isn't hard PER SAY. It's ARTIFICALLY hard by the endgame being particularly punishing for no reason and exp penalties that mean hours of work were for nothing. There is a soft cap on FUN in GGG games. That's a fact. It's different for different people... it depends on just how much of your time you're willing to waste and have taken away with zero gains before you give up. That's the primary problem with GGG games. Visit my Steam profile here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheBaconOverlord/ Last edited by Bacon_Overlord#1834 on Dec 31, 2024, 1:15:08 PM
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It's always the folks that haven't been around much or ever supported the game that think it's "just perfect".
Feels like burner troll accounts to me. Visit my Steam profile here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheBaconOverlord/
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" I don't think you understood the point I was making about dark souls. Also you're just kind of making up claims that "people" don't love the original dark souls. You were saying that people only want to fight bosses so they get cool loot. That's just not true for everyone. The dark souls franchise, which is *undeniably popular*, is a trivial example of this. Many games across many genres have stuff that people do just for the challenge or the fun of it. " This is not universal. This might be your experience, but honestly it sounds kind of hollow. Do you really never do anything for the satisfaction of it? " I feel really bad for your partners if this is your mode of thinking. " It's not that simple and your arguments are resting entirely on your idiosyncratic takes. I would like you to accept that other people enjoy things for different reasons, and that is okay. Plus, i never said the game was perfect. I enjoyed it, but that doesn't mean it is perfect. |
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" People like to say "artificial difficulty" but that's not really well defined. The entire game is artificial. What makes some difficulty artificial and some natural? There is no "natural" to compare "my character died in a video game and then..." to. That thing doesn't exist in nature. It's entirely made up. If anything, the character becoming unplayable would be more "natural" because that's what happens in real life if you get stabbed a lot. But that wouldn't be fun for most people. I think when people say "artificial difficulty" they're trying to say "I don't think this fun", but making it sound more objective. It sounds, to me, like they watch too much youtube junk and are duckspeaking. |
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" That some situations are imposed to halt progression. Like EXP penalty, scarce loot dropping, lack of crafting system, unexplicable OHKO from white mobs - a Boss, a rare, a Unique is natural to have OHKO mechanics that we have to learn and deal with - now OHKO by a YOLO white mob from nowhere is artificial AF. Hit walls on a game is natural - player issue, skill issue, gear issue Hit walls because gear drop not progress by design, RNG hinders any kind of skill/preparation - it is artificial difficult. |
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