Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

Yeah, the issue with the current implementation is that the exp needed to level past a certain point takes hours to days. Where dying would delete those hours of progress.

Losing only the exp from the current map would change the loss down to 5 min to half an hour max.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

then the design fails miserably since your average player will be discouraged and learns "I should not do this again, I lose time".

No one is going to make a new character after many hours diverting from what they want to do because they die, and if punishment for dying exists they will not experiment to fix the problem because that entails dying more... so they quit.
-1 player

so it be. if somebody cant progress any further and is not willing to put in the effort it takes to get further, i dont think the problem is on the game. at some point in the game, every single player is hitting a wall. its on the player to overcome that wall, its about risk and reward. its not on the game to delete the wall and the risk in order to get people to the rewards easily. if you dont like that, thats fine. but thats the way it is, and its good that way.

Doesn't no progress and no penalty also say the same thing. Repeatedly dying to the same content and not making any progress says it in spades. penalties are not required to convey that. Penalties however definitely discourage. I am not in favor or against them. I see them as part of game I have to work with it. But i don't agree that they are absolutely required to convey what u are saying is the message.

Penalties right now are like the way people rudely put their views forward to someone. Even if they are right its highly likely that no one is going to listen or appreciate validity of the comments if they are said rudely. After a while they ll just avoid the conversation.

I also see that heavy death penalties do add some prestige to lvl 100. but that is more an indicator of how much a person can grind not so much of how good a player is. Then again its grinding gears game. XD

My 72 sorc is my 2nd attempt at endgame and now at early stage of mapping (tier 3), xp lost on death doesn't feel like it is too punishing atm. maybe my stance will change when or if reach higher level, but I'm not totally against having some kind of penalty when you die, so for now I'm not against it.

However, the type penalty on death and/or the severity of it, I favor it to be less punishing. The severity of the penalty of losing the waystone, items the on ground, map and xp is quite harsh. Progression is already feel stagnant even in lower tiers.

Gear upgrades are hard to come by without trading. I don't mind trading for a few missing pieces here and there as supplement of gear progression, but when farming currency to trade for gears is the main source of upgrades, what's the point of crafting if you are not SSF? Sorry, slightly off topic.

I wanted to progress further on both my endgame characters, but I'm having more fun leveling a new one, because status of endgame doesn't feel balance atm.

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

If you are getting one shot by some random mobs, you, yes, you and your build may have a problem.

Yes, my build does not have 10k+ ES.
Because it is life based

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

sry, im tired of people claiming they deserve to be lvl 100 and all that is blocking them to go there is bad, while they are not able to run 2 maps without dying and constantly blame the game for their own faults.

The challenge of beating the content should be what blocks players, not XP penalties.

Players should not be able to consistently run ten to twenty maps without dying. Some people on the forums have even said you should be able to go a hundred maps without a death.
i
I'm sorry, but if that's what "normal" maps are, let us stick the maps and stones into a pachinko machine that will spit out the rewards with bells and whistles. That would at least be exciting and engaging.

I want to do challenging content. I want to know that I'll probably die at least 25% of the time. But the game won't allow that.

The ironic thing is the XP penalty makes the game easier, not harder. Without the penalty, the devs would be free to crank up the challenge on the bosses so people would die a lot learning the mechanics and mastering the fights. The fact that the penalty exists mean they cannot provide that level of challenge without driving players away from frustration.

The time spent in game is key here.

The more free time you have to spend in game the more your time is effective and valuable.

A casual player who spends an hour doing XP will progress far less than an experienced gamer doing XP, time spent is more effective because of knowledge and skill.

When you establish this, it becomes obvious that 10% XP is far more punishing for some than others.

10% XP for some could be 3 or 4 hours of game time and with an hour per day feels like half a week of progress. For others these 10% XP can be around 2 hours and with a lot of game time is just a setback in a day og gaming.

So obviously this also explains why some people really don't like it.


If you look at other arguments through the "game time" looking glass.

A person who plays one hour a day is not going to reach level 100, with or without XP penalty. The objective is way above its "game time" capacity, so there's no danger of easy level 100 here.

At the same time, the experienced player will probably hit level 100 if he puts his mind or currency on it. And once it's done, completely bypass the designed wall. When you're level 100 and can't lose xp anymore, doing glass cannon with no defense becomes acceptable. When you think further about it, now that it's easier to respec, you can just pass a level, respec in glass cannon and do all the content you want with no defense, literally unpunished in the eyes of that game aspect in particular.

On the topic of "level 100 is not for everyone, it's just an achievement" :

Leveling gives you talent points, and talents points are progression. And for some people this progression is more tangible than buying the 50 divines item on the market. You could say, "a build is usually functional at lvl85", yes but going above and beyond of functional is one of the main goal of the game. Nobody will say "your yellow end of campaign gear is functional, getting better gear is an achievement, it's not necessary".

This punishment is so divisive because it doesn't affect people the same way.

The EXP lost doesn't bother me tbh, only thing game needs improvement is give us a chance at fighting end-game bosses more frequent and adding more content instead of boring maps over and over again.

There is a 0.00001% chance that GGG will remove the exp loss on death.

Having 6 portals back would be nice though.

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Terr2048#0133 wrote:

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

If you are getting one shot by some random mobs, you, yes, you and your build may have a problem.

Yes, my build does not have 10k+ ES.
Because it is life based

I don't use grim feast and I have 5,5k ES since I magic find. Not all CI has 10k+ ES. Even if I use dream fragment, it does not add the "max mana" to your ES when using Everlasting gaze.

First off, I *enjoy* XP loss. I think it's good. (level 84 Monk)

I think this topic is misunderstood by folks who think this is an issue of everyone getting to 100 or not..

*EVERYONE* that can get to maps can get to 100.... You could just repeat really low tier garbage maps that are totally boring and giving you barely any XP, over and over until you finally get there.

This is about what the game makes you to do get to 100. If a player is encouraged to do something that is unfun to get to 100, they are not quitting because they can't get to 100. They are quitting because the only way they can see to get there isn't fun.

Is that a good thing?

I personally think the XP loss on death is kind of fun and exciting, and it makes me think differently about the next map I'm going to queue. However, I also think it makes me take on less challenging stuff.

I think the Pinnacle boss situation is a good analogy. I don't want to go to YouTube to learn the fight by watching a tutorial. I want to experience it, because it's MORE FUN. However, the pinaccle boss key mechanics, as described to me, really punish this approach, because if I fail my attempt I'm going to have to re-farm those keys.

This is giving me a choice between an un-satisfying method of ending (watching YouTube to "cheat"), or an un-fun method of ending (regrinding the atlas countless times to earn keys).

I'd like to pound my head against the boss as many times as it takes to learn the fight, and tackle it myself, without seeing any spoilers. That would be the most fun.

This same pattern exists in the map tiers themselves. Many people have fun challenging themselves with hard maps, but the Xp-loss removes that as a reasonable option because as the levels increase, it costs larger and larger amounts of time to do so.

I've personally found my way of dealing with this system.. which is that after I level (when I have no XP to lose), I go run the hardest maps I can find, until I find something that kills me... then I dial it back until I'm on a steady XP climb... until I get to the next level. It works, but I'm certainly not having as much fun as if I could take on harder stuff, knowing if I fail it will get me nothing, but that it won't set me back more than the time I invested (plus a constant).

I would personally like to see Maps put some of the loot-budget into a "map completion chest", allowing us to more aggressively blitz a map without so much looting, and only if we complete the map objectives do we get the "map completion", more like what happens with the event mechanics.