Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

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mrxkon#5764 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

So if you
Couldn't respec at all

Couldn't create a new character

Couldn't change a piece of gear

Would it be bad game design or just "actions have consequences" ?

I'm not sure how is this relevant now, or if we entered the realm of replying for the sake of it? But to be as fair as possible I'll answer.

If you don't have gold, you can't respec. The action here would be you spending it elsewhere, or not gathering it in the first place I suppose...

There's 24 character slots, if you take up all of them, well the consequence is that you can't make yet another.

If you're carrying a piece of gear with specific requirements that you're missing, you can't equip it can you?

None of the above are "bad" or "good" designs by definition, they are just designs. If you like them or not, that's a different story and it's simply an opinion. Opinions vary though and that's the beauty of it :) .

It's relevant because some actions have no consequences, some do, and the harshness of the consequence varies. The question I had was "why dying have this consequence ?" What's the purpose of it.

There are multiple reason and im pretty sure there are more than i can think of. 1 being make people actually work on their build to actually progress instead of just equipping a weapon do some damage and call it a day since they will eventually progress/level up regardless of any defences as long as they deal damage.
2 It would be pointless to have any sort of race events since there will be no penalty for having a crappy glasscannon no brain build since u dont get punished and the race becomes a meaningless act of clearspeed and who can play for most hours in a row cause there is no conseqences from dying.
3 lvl 100 would just be meaningless and not any sort of proof of u having a good build which actually much to younger casual players surprice matters to many veterans of this genre
4 the game looses its purpose if there are no consequences, which i know a huge part of the younger generation are not used to anymore cause they dont teach consequences anymore.

Im sure GGG have even more reasons and i might too when i think it through but to be honest there would be absolutely no reason to get good at the game if there was no xp loss on death or consequences and this will kill the game way faster than the other way around. Besides im sure the game is better off loosing a few casual players crying about xp loss if it means it can stay true to the genre and its vision, afterall the true fans will stay poe 1 already showed this and so did D2 back in the days. And its the true hardcore fans that buy the supporterpacks not the casual gamer that plays for 50 hours

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mrxkon#5764 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

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mrxkon#5764 wrote:

Which action has no consequence if I may ask ? I'm curious.

None actually, if you include all kind of consequences.

When you cast a spell you lose mana.

The goal from my perspective is to prevent player to overspam spells.

So what is the goal behind XP penalty ?

In my opinion, it's for you to be more cautious and learn all the mechanics properly of each mob or boss that you encounter and roll and wait and move away so on so forth, instead of just rushing through everything because "death doesn't really matter".

Now you're going to most likely say that "but there's 100 bugs, and white trash can 1-shot me which beats the purpose".

I'd say that you're correct ( again in my opinion ), and that's where the term "EA" kicks in, and I suppose we all hope ( meaning both sides on the topic here ) that all those actual bugs and unwanted interactions are properly patched down the road so the XP loss is fully justified and the only reason for it to happen is, well, "you".

If you still don't like it when/if that happens, can't say much more at that point other than that this game wasn't designed for you and your preferences.

But it was a GGG decision to do it that way, you can either like it or not and nobody is forcing you to continue playing of course ( and I'm not saying this in a condescending tone, it's just the reality ).

PoE1 isn't in EA and suffers the same issue with one-shots. Pretty much ALL arpg's suffers the issue with oneshots. Making it a fault in the way the genre as a whole works.

1. there's a lot of games with build and gear, and no XP penalty. Yet players still dread death and try to do better. Do better damage, better defence. Dying in a game is losing and people dans like losing already even with the extra kick in the nuts that is XP penalty.

2. Why not having XP penalty only for race events then ?

3. Level 100 would still take a lot of time. And dying every two rares is not gonna make leveling faster. More people would be level 100 for sure. But it would be people with at least 20 hours a week for a month or two. Which is a lot time invested for somebody to be gatekeeper.

4. I'm a "veteran" and i don't like XP penalty, it's not just young generation. I thought it was bad with D2, it's just a matter of personal preference. My player ego doesn't like dying at all, I prefer winning, corpse running is not fun and not winning, maybe I'm the only one against XP penalty thinking this way.


It would be nice to have a ggg take on XP penalty, that goes deeper than "you need some kind of penalty for dying".

Exp penalty is not the problem.

Bad Boss/Rare mob balance is the problem.

Bad league mechanics are the problem.

Exp penalty is not the problem

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Gordyne#2944 wrote:

Exp penalty is not the problem.

Bad Boss/Rare mob balance is the problem.

Bad league mechanics are the problem.

Exp penalty is not the problem

Both are a problem, with the 2nd point pretty much being a fundamental problem with the genre as a whole.

The exp penalty is just a dumb system someone thought was good 20+ years ago

The xp loss is fine. You can get to around 91 or so before the xp gets really slow and by that point you should be able to clear most of the game on most if not all builds. I can't recall any build I ever played in PoE (started July 2012) that has required anything greater than lvl 93-95. Lvl 100 is a stretch goal purely for prestige.

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Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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MrPedez#4934 wrote:

Yup u can never loose a lvl nor can u cheese ur way to a higher lvl without having a build that can actually do the content without dying multiple maps in a row. So yes systems like this exists for a reason.

Nobody cares about any of that, lvl100 isn't some grand achievement. The average player just wants to have fun in a game without their time being wasted. Just make it optional, and if you enjoy losing your exp and time so much then go ahead and keep it enabled. The people who do not, can opt out and disable it. Everyone wins.

If level 100 isn't the achievement, then why do you care about the exp loss?

reaching max level in a rpg gives you a sense of closure with a character, it's a thing of mental satisfaction. It does not feel like you are tackling post game otherwise, it is the expectation of the genre of rpg. Players want to get their talent points and "I got my full build, now for the extra content".
It's like saying a mmo is made for level 55 when 60 is max "rest is a bonus". It sounds as ridiculous as it is. If it is made for level 55 then why does it go to 60? Where is the 56-60 content? The game is incomplete.

And then you magically realize, most of the playerbase quits at end game and largely plays through the acts

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kabooms#3788 wrote:

The xp loss is fine. You can get to around 91 or so before the xp gets really slow and by that point you should be able to clear most of the game on most if not all builds. I can't recall any build I ever played in PoE (started July 2012) that has required anything greater than lvl 93-95. Lvl 100 is a stretch goal purely for prestige.

Aka, the game have been designed to make it so that the last 10 levels effectively don't really exists.

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MrPedez#4934 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nah, it's just that the year is no longer 2000. It's almost 2025, people want a game that respects their time instead of one that deletes it every 10 minutes. Outdated mechanics such as exp loss should be abandoned in the past where they belong, and this 1 portal nonsense will have to change if GGG hopes to have a game with more than Ruthless player numbers retention.

Big changes will have to happen during this EA or the game is just gonna die due to so many people quitting. Campaign is a chore,endgame is a chore. And if people don't like this game and it bores them, they will move onto a game that they enjoy. That's simply what will happen.

Sadly there isn't a big enough audience of people that want some dark souls parody arpg with d2 nostalgia stuffed in it, this game won't be able to run as a live-service f2p title if nothing changes. But that's what EA is for, I'm sure loooooots of shifts will happen especially between the test leagues they'll do.

Seems like poe 1 did very well maintaing a healthy playerbase without removing xp loss or giving handouts to cry babies.
Unfortunately they dont teach kids consequences these days and it shows, luckily GGG is know to prioritize the game and their visions over quantity and more money like Blizzard does these days, Blizzard is just a sellout now abusing their old IP's for income.

And then you magically realize, most of the playerbase quits at end game and largely plays through the acts