Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

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Gordyne#2944 wrote:

Exp penalty is not the problem.

Bad Boss/Rare mob balance is the problem.

Bad league mechanics are the problem.

Exp penalty is not the problem

Both are a problem, with the 2nd point pretty much being a fundamental problem with the genre as a whole.

The exp penalty is just a dumb system someone thought was good 20+ years ago

The xp loss is fine. You can get to around 91 or so before the xp gets really slow and by that point you should be able to clear most of the game on most if not all builds. I can't recall any build I ever played in PoE (started July 2012) that has required anything greater than lvl 93-95. Lvl 100 is a stretch goal purely for prestige.

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Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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MrPedez#4934 wrote:

Yup u can never loose a lvl nor can u cheese ur way to a higher lvl without having a build that can actually do the content without dying multiple maps in a row. So yes systems like this exists for a reason.

Nobody cares about any of that, lvl100 isn't some grand achievement. The average player just wants to have fun in a game without their time being wasted. Just make it optional, and if you enjoy losing your exp and time so much then go ahead and keep it enabled. The people who do not, can opt out and disable it. Everyone wins.

If level 100 isn't the achievement, then why do you care about the exp loss?

reaching max level in a rpg gives you a sense of closure with a character, it's a thing of mental satisfaction. It does not feel like you are tackling post game otherwise, it is the expectation of the genre of rpg. Players want to get their talent points and "I got my full build, now for the extra content".
It's like saying a mmo is made for level 55 when 60 is max "rest is a bonus". It sounds as ridiculous as it is. If it is made for level 55 then why does it go to 60? Where is the 56-60 content? The game is incomplete.

And then you magically realize, most of the playerbase quits at end game and largely plays through the acts

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kabooms#3788 wrote:

The xp loss is fine. You can get to around 91 or so before the xp gets really slow and by that point you should be able to clear most of the game on most if not all builds. I can't recall any build I ever played in PoE (started July 2012) that has required anything greater than lvl 93-95. Lvl 100 is a stretch goal purely for prestige.

Aka, the game have been designed to make it so that the last 10 levels effectively don't really exists.

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MrPedez#4934 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nah, it's just that the year is no longer 2000. It's almost 2025, people want a game that respects their time instead of one that deletes it every 10 minutes. Outdated mechanics such as exp loss should be abandoned in the past where they belong, and this 1 portal nonsense will have to change if GGG hopes to have a game with more than Ruthless player numbers retention.

Big changes will have to happen during this EA or the game is just gonna die due to so many people quitting. Campaign is a chore,endgame is a chore. And if people don't like this game and it bores them, they will move onto a game that they enjoy. That's simply what will happen.

Sadly there isn't a big enough audience of people that want some dark souls parody arpg with d2 nostalgia stuffed in it, this game won't be able to run as a live-service f2p title if nothing changes. But that's what EA is for, I'm sure loooooots of shifts will happen especially between the test leagues they'll do.

Seems like poe 1 did very well maintaing a healthy playerbase without removing xp loss or giving handouts to cry babies.
Unfortunately they dont teach kids consequences these days and it shows, luckily GGG is know to prioritize the game and their visions over quantity and more money like Blizzard does these days, Blizzard is just a sellout now abusing their old IP's for income.

And then you magically realize, most of the playerbase quits at end game and largely plays through the acts

I cant take a person serios that is 24 7 stating the game is going to die.This is so ridiculous...i could cry.

If you want to alter your build to make sure you never die so you can grab the last couple of levels you have the option.

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MrPedez#4934 wrote:

There are multiple reason and im pretty sure there are more than i can think of. 1 being make people actually work on their build to actually progress instead of just equipping a weapon do some damage and call it a day since they will eventually progress/level up regardless of any defences as long as they deal damage.
2 It would be pointless to have any sort of race events since there will be no penalty for having a crappy glasscannon no brain build since u dont get punished and the race becomes a meaningless act of clearspeed and who can play for most hours in a row cause there is no conseqences from dying.
3 lvl 100 would just be meaningless and not any sort of proof of u having a good build which actually much to younger casual players surprice matters to many veterans of this genre
4 the game looses its purpose if there are no consequences, which i know a huge part of the younger generation are not used to anymore cause they dont teach consequences anymore.

Im sure GGG have even more reasons and i might too when i think it through but to be honest there would be absolutely no reason to get good at the game if there was no xp loss on death or consequences and this will kill the game way faster than the other way around. Besides im sure the game is better off loosing a few casual players crying about xp loss if it means it can stay true to the genre and its vision, afterall the true fans will stay poe 1 already showed this and so did D2 back in the days. And its the true hardcore fans that buy the supporterpacks not the casual gamer that plays for 50 hours

1) That's rather weak to really argue about since some extra talent points are very unlikely to be a huge change in your build, notably if you can clear the max level content or not in form of bosses. I get the idea but you are encouraged to do that throughout the entire game so it seems mood.

2) People with an interest in a competitive event will do it within their own community and restrictions so it has no effect, it might change a few things but ultimately almost no one cares for this so forcing the vast majority of player to adhere to a challenge is ridiculous. Players should be given a choice to opt in to this race on char creation which enables special rules (and rewards perhaps).

3) It already is meaningless, there is nothing good about your build for grinding safe t15 waystones for weeks (and log out macro). Never was, never will. Your build is good if you can comfortably clear the campaign (relative to what is available) and have reliable performance in maps and post game content (such as sekhemas and what not, uber bosses). If you can be comfortable at level 90 then it is a level 100 build minus you having other interests. Really what this shows is that there is a demand for content that requires you to be a great player (both in skill and knowledge), so level 105+ enemy content not everyone can clear without effort and attention.

4) The purpose of a game is primarily entertainment, winding down from stressful activities such as work and in terms of a rpg character progression (at a players own pace). Making a character already has consequences in being unable to play other builds, death in off itself has the consequence of you having to redo the content you fail at. If you were to try and farm maps too hard for you and get some xp every time you would still not progress as realistically 1-2 levels that way will not make you perform any better. In addition to that it has psychological consequences as dying is inherently not fun as such the player will think about this and attempt not to die again. Only very few would really run head first into the wall over and over.. but some enjoy this so more power to them I guess.

As far as I am concerned all the death penalties in post game, map nodes xp and waystones, should be opt-in for the player. You opt in and thus acquire extra rewards in forms of higher item quality, xp and other things GGG can discuss. In case of the race to 100 event you might or might not enjoy using these restrictions as they would be, or should be, optimal as such the punishment for glass cannons exists without dragging down the casual playerbase with it.
It is a rather simple solution that makes everyone happy, unless you want to brag with max level to someone in which case no one is interested in it.

Players hate difficulty mechanics until the totally complete the game and wish they had more to do.

They serve a purpose and imposing them later into the game is fair.